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1951 F3 marmon herrington

  #16  
Old 10-01-2015, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by thundersnow70 View Post


My 52 F2 MH on auction day. $800 bucks after the auction. A 1 of 2 truck. same truck with 4 wheels and tires
Hey Mark. What is that bar thing across the front bumber for? Oh the stories these old work horses could tell if they could only speak to us!!! . Any truck whisperer's among us...
 
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:00 PM
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The guy casper1999 will want to get to know is chuck4850. Chuck Mantiglia of Chuck's Trucks is the M-H guru. Hope he drops by to comment. Early on Chuck told me the F-2/F-3 M-Hs were treated like they were F-5s, and as a result they got run to death and are less common today than even the half tons. Chuck estimated there were 200 half tons per year converted, and my archive suggests there were 300 or a few more of the F-2/F-3s converted per year. Given that the M-H conversion doubled the original purchase price of an F-3, it stands to reason that owners kept them going and patched them back together repeatedly. Hope casper1999 can help add this survivor to my archive and to Mark Mossell's Registry.

Here is Chuck's web page. Stu

Chucks Trucks LLC., Chuck's Trucks, Chucks Trucks
 
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Old 10-01-2015, 10:04 PM
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As the story goes the F2 was bought new by the village of Bonesteel SD. Then was sold to a private owner in "small town" SD. He sold it to a Nebraska rancher in 1967. The title never got switched from SD to Neb. It was never licensed after 67. It was a plow truck and push truck for someone. That hoop on the front is a homemade grill guard. Look at the BIG ol plate under it. It was built to push something. The bar hoop was pretty neat. It was made from an axle shaft with the end cut off. Just a solid steel bar with splines on the end! That old girl lived a hard life. It now on R&R getting a 66% new frame and will live again. No more pushing or pulling. No more hauling etc. Just a well deserved retirement.
 
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thundersnow70 View Post
It took me a while to figure out the box. I thought it was for holding tools while fixing fence. Turns out it was a battery box. No Joke.
Thanks guys, all this info is just what I was looking for. I know ypu guys can't quote prices on what little info. you have but I do have a gut feeling about where I stand now and I thank you!. Now about that wheel on the left side...what you're seeing is the brake drum, there is no wheel! How much of a concern will there be finding one! Are they a universal MH wheel or type specific?
 
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Old 10-01-2015, 11:35 PM
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5 lug on 8" circle.

Being that its an f3 its probably got 17" wheels like mine has. They are out there but might be hard to find.
Im going to run some 19.5 wheels from a late 70's dodge or ford chassis. With these tires.



When i zoom in on that picture i see a dark mass (brak drum?) but there is light through a hole? In the darkness. Ibthought it was possibly a wheel? In a pinch to make it a roller to load unload etc you migjt be able to get a 8.25x20 sized tire & wheel under the fender as well?

Good luck
 
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:21 AM
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The critical concern isn't the missing wheel, but whether the adapter on that corner is still there. The M-H conversion added an adapter that mounted to the stock F-3 rear Timken axle. The adapter allowed use of 5 lug X 8" pattern Budd wheels on the rear matching the bolt pattern used on the M-H front axle. In the below pictures you see the 8 x 6.5" pattern of the stock axle with 5 x 8" on the outer surface.




The stock wheels are either 17" x 4.33" (Budd #44820) or 17" x 5.00" (Budd #59340). There is also a later 17" x 6" version that is fairly commonly found in yards (Budd #66520) if you don't care about finding an exact match for your other three wheels. Or you can do as Josh and Mark are doing and use the 19.5" tubeless wheels as Josh pictured, either 5.25" wide (Budd #72070) or 6.00" wide (Budd #89340). Finding a wheel and tire to get it rolling won't be hard, then you can decide if you want to match the others. I have spares, or can show you what to look for locally.

Tires will become a topic of interest too. Josh's are NOS bias ply Courser Traction LTs in 8-19.5" size. Below is my set of show wheels, Budd 59340s, with NOS 7.50 x 17" Coursers. It gets to be a disease! Stu


Edit - for clarity, Josh's 8-19.5s and my 7.50 x 17s are the same 34" diameter tire. It's just a difference in size measurements between tubeless (19.5") and tube type (17"). In my below picture, four are NOS 17" Coursers and two are NOS 19.5" Coursers. Can you tell the difference? Probably not. Stu
 
  #22  
Old 10-02-2015, 04:30 AM
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After taking a closer look at my photo I'm seeing that hole on the left side and thinking that sure looks like a wheel over there !!! I'm going to have to get some more pics for sure.
 
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:57 AM
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If the inner wheel is there you are very fortunate because that means the adapter is still mounted. As Josh and Mark can attest, that is the hardest of missing parts to replace. If the wheel base remains but is missing its outer ring it's not a horrible problem. Just find one of the above described optional replacement wheels. Don't try to fit some random ring to the rim, they don't all interchange. Good pictures will tell you what you face. Stu
 
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:18 PM
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I still think the wheel is missing because I remember being VERY impressed about the size of the lug nuts! It seems to me that the lug nuts were there but the wheel wasn't, suggesting the adapter may still be there. the story goes that the truck was driven to its current location and replaced by a newer 3/4 ton truck. the owner says he thinks the wheel may have been loaned out to a neighbor(..another MH close by perhaps?..) and was never returned. A look thru and around some barns might be in order.
 
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:48 PM
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I looked at your picture again and it sure looks like the wheel is mounted. No tire, and likely no side ring/locking ring to hold things together. That piece of machinery sitting next to the truck might be able to donate a wheel if it has the same 5 lug x 8" pattern. My fear though, based on the military NDT tire, is that that wheel may have the military 5 lug x 6 7/8" pattern as used on Power Wagons and the war era IHCs that Owen mentioned above. If you find that that piece of machinery has a 5 x 8" pattern, allowing it to be your donor, be conscious that there are left hand threads on the left side of your truck, and right had threads on the right side. The studs and nuts will be marked "L" or "R". The same will probably apply to that piece of machinery. The below chart will help you see how to measure the bolt circle, if you aren't familiar with the practice. Stu

 
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:33 PM
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Thanks Stu, that's good info that I wasn't aware of. So if the outer part of the wheel is missing could I remove the adapter and put a different wheel on the original hub, and if so what wheel will work?
 
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Old 10-03-2015, 01:39 PM
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Well, not exactly the way you said it. First, the adapter is bolted to the stock hub/drum using the original 8 lug nuts. Confusingly, they are right hand threaded on both sides of the truck's rear axle.

Second, the Budd wheel and tire assembly gets bolted to the adapter. Since the missing tire is on the left side, the 5 Budd left hand threaded lug nuts must come off to free the wheel base. Don't expect those lug nuts to come off easily. The factory torque spec when they were mounted was 450-500 ft/lbs of torque. Years of rust and inertia will take proper tools to free them up. Working in that field I think you at minimum need to take a "pork chop" and a BFH, technical name for a 3 lb sledge. I'll find a picture of a pork chop and edit to add that.

I'm assuming the outer ring will be missing since the tire is off. You can see in the below picture the outer ring on the face side of the wheel (this is a 66520 as described above). Whether the ring is with the wheel or not you will still need a donor wheel/tire that holds air if you expect it to roll cleanly on to your trailer. I have loaded them with locked up rear axle before, so you may just have to out muscle it if no donor wheel can be found once you're there. Stu



Edit:



Edit edit: you may face more than just the single style Budd nuts. The below picture shows the inner nut used on DRW applications. I've had these on trucks I've rescued. Interesting M-H trivia, these "inner cap nuts" were factory installed on the FRONT axles with spacers on 1953 F-250s that were supplied with leftover 1952 axles. Stu

 
  #28  
Old 10-03-2015, 05:17 PM
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Quick question.....How many acres is needed for this addiction??? I get the feeling 1 MH will never be enough! LOL!!!!
 
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:49 PM
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Ummm, I guess that depends....on the truck you've found.....on whether you are a person that adopts every stray dog you find....on whether you can get needed "unobtainium" parts from friends....on how big your barn is....and on how many acres you have available.

There's no avoiding the plain fact that rescuing a M-H is not like finding a normal 2wd half ton sitting in that field. With a half ton you can buy almost any piece you need over the phone from a dozen catalog companies. With a 2wd F-2/F-3 there are added challenges finding sheet metal that isn't being repop'd. With an F-2/3 M-H you have Chuck, and us. Stu
 
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Old 10-03-2015, 07:26 PM
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When you stated how much torque was required on the lug nuts the scope of this endeavor hit me like a frieght train!!! 20 years ago I fell in love with this truck and after all this time the fire still burns hot. I realize this is not a typical resto project and am up for it if I'm successful in getting this truck.. I can also see that all you guys on here will be my most valuable resource in bringing this truck back to life. I'd like to say "Thank you" to everyone who chimed in with their thoughts and info in order to give me a place to start. I will keep you posted on the outcome ,thanks
 

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