I will definitely continue to post updates as I have them. No matter the direction this project takes I will let everyone know. I am taking my older brother to the shop tomorrow to meet Joey and see what his take on him is.

 

I think you will find a lot of naysayers on here. I encountered a lot of the same stuff when I started my build thread on here. A lot of people telling me I don't know what I am doing and it will take too long, be too hard, my build wasn't safe, etc... Put close to a 1000 miles on the truck this year and taken home 4 car show awards. So let me be a positive voice for you. I hope they do good work for you! You should get some before pictures and track the build as it progresses and let everyone see how it progresses.

I spent $15k on my truck plus about 300 hours of labor. $6k on paint and body and $9k on materials for the rebuild (body parts, suspension, interior parts, engine, trans etc). My truck is far from original, but I also spent a fair bit in parts. I guess if labor is cheap enough and you don't spend a lot on parts, $24k is doable.

Good luck!

 

Ryans88gt - thank you for the positive feedback!

 

Sorry Millermadness11, you asked for the good and bad... Unfortunately there is a lot more bad then good to be spoke of... A friend of mine's dad left his truck '32 Ford p/u at a shop that was owned by a family friend's son and his business partner, that partner skipped out with that '32.... And they have never found him or their truck,

The price you were quoted is less then other's on here have been given for paint alone... So everyone wants you to be aware of this... But the final decision is your. Keep us informed on progress.

 

I woke up this morning feeling bad that the truck owner feels , or maybe I just got the feeling that He feels like He is under
attack here on the board, and that just isn't how this site is. This site is so special to me because it isn't. Miller(sorry I don't know your first name yet) As Moe already said you asked for opinions good or bad, and that is all you got. Believe me when I say every person on the board is hoping, that your truck comes out beautiful on budget and on time, there is nothing that would make me happier. I guess my whole point is we are behind you not against you, so please know that. You are part of the FTE family now and we try to protect our family members, in this case that's you. That's all I have.

 

Ryan, you are proving our point. I owned my own business for 35 years and can tell you the following about running a business for profit: Using your figures, 24,000 -15K on parts (your cost I assume?) no legitimate business is going to sell him the parts at their cost, unless they are getting them from Midnight Auto supply. They have to at least cover the expense of finding, ordering, transportation, taxes and covering the expense of fronting the costs. Standard markup is 50 - 100% of cost. Then there is overhead: rent or mortgage on the space, insurance (on the space and contents), utilities, licenses, taxes, upfitting and equipment costs, expendables, bookeeping. Then there is employee expenses: SS (employers have to match every dollar SS withheld with a equal dollar out of their pocket), medical insurance, liability insurance, workman's comp. My store's overhead cost me >25.00 an hour for every open hours and >10.00 an hour when the door was locked and the lights shut off and not making me a dime. and so far the owner hasn't not turned any profit. But even in Fantasyland if they sold the parts at (your) cost and had no overhead expenses, that would leave 9000.00 of the 24K quote for labor. 9000.00/300 hrs =30.00 per hour shop time to pay 5 guys + ? subs. How many experienced builders even illegals are going to work for <6.00/ hr (including the owner) that's not even minimum wage and the owner still hasn't made a dime. Maybe this new math adds subtracts and multiplies differently in CA? A very large percentage of small businesses that go under within a year of opening is because they don't account for overhead and/or profit. I am not being negative, just being a realist. I was taught many years ago that if a deal sounds too good to be true, there is probably a skunk in the woodpile.

 

Nevermind. (This post deleted)

 

I think you are proving my point about being overly negative. As I said, "if labor is cheap enough and you don't spend a lot on parts, $24k is doable."
Both points that you overlooked in your analysis above. If the OP has most of the parts he intends to be restored I think $24k is actually kinda pricey. But then again, I only spent $6k on all of my paint/body and assembly work. I am sure you will tell me that paint/body and assembly can't be done for that price also... but the proof is in the pudding

 

Ryan you are arguing a totally different point. Yes, YOU could do it for the cost of materials on your own truck if you don't cost your own labor/overhead. If you'll do the body work and paint my truck for 6000.00 I'll bring it right over! This guy is not doing it himself, he is hiring it out to someone who is supposed to be making a PROFIT (nothing has been said that he is a charity) How many hours did it take you, including the time and costs to source, order, and obtain the materials? How much is your labor worth (to do work for someone else)? How much profit would you expect to make (labor and profit are two separate figures)? How much per hr is your overhead (don't say free, there is always overhead even in your own home shop/garage/backyard, and WAY more if you are operating a for profit business)? Now add it up, what is your bodywork and paint really worth?
Bottom line: Would YOU contract to build him this truck and in the time frame as specified for 24K??? If so, I'd highly recommend he ship it to you immediately, as least he would be assured you can do the work.
PS: where did you read he has all the parts needed, his contract has a laundry list of parts the builder is supposed to provide from leather interior, to OEM gas tank, to electric power brakes, to all the parts to rebuild the engine and transmission etc etc etc.

 

Actually no I am not. I hired out the paint and body and assembly work. Actual cost to me was 6,000 including paint and materials. That does include overhead, profit, and on top of that, all the guys that work there pay taxes!

He actually did say that he had the gas tank...yes the leather and brakes will cost money... but that doesn't add up to much.

PM me if you are serious about wanting your truck painted. I have a good connection. They said they do these typically for $6-8k. Just can't be in a rush, they have a long waiting list.

 

I have to agree with AxRacer on this one.

I have been running my own company for the past 21 years, so I speak from experience when I say that AxRacer's numbers are, if anything, too conservative.

Labor Costs include the hourly rate of pay, plus the employer's 7.625% mandatory contribution to Social Security and Medicare, plus any benefits that the employers provides, such as contribution to a pension plan, health insurance, etc. Worker's Comp Insurance is based upon so many dollars per hundred dollars of payroll-my comp rate for cabinetmakers in NY is $7.50/$100.00 in wages earned, or 7.5%.
If Health Insurance is partially covered by the employer, for example-he pays $400.00/month towards the insurance each month, then his cost would be (40 hours week x 52 weeks = 2080 labor hours; $400.00 x 12 = $4,800.00; $4,800.00/2080=$2.31/hour).
If the employer gives 6 paid Holidays and 2 weeks paid vacation=48+40+40=128 labor hours paid but not worked @ $20.00/hour = $2,560.00/2080=$1.23/hour.

So, if I pay a skilled body shop man $20.00/hour, he actually costs me $20.00+(20x.07625 FICA)$1.53+(20x.03 Pension Plan)$.60+(20x.075 Comp)$1.50+(Health Insurance)$2.31+(Holidays, Vacation)$1.23=$27.17 for every hour worked.

My Labor Cost is $27.17 Per Man Hour.

Now I have to figure my overhead.
Electricity isn't cheap; say $500.00/month $6,000.00/year
Gas for heat @ $250.00 balanced billing $3,000.00/year
Rent @ $5.00 square foot, 6,500 square foot shop $32,500.00/year
Liabilty Insurance, Based on Sales $10,000.00/year
Water (I'm in the Great lakes Area, Water is cheap) $600.00/year
Waste Disposal, Non-Hazardous @ $200.00/month $2,400.00/year
Waste Disposal, Hazardous (thinners, paints, etc)
$500.00 each 55 Gallon Drum, 6 Drums per Year $3,000.00/year
Commercial Auto Insurance, Company Truck $1,500.00/year
Gas, Company Truck @ $100.00/month $1,200.00/year
Maintenence, Company Truck $1,500.00/year
Shop Consumables (trash bags, toilet paper, etc) $600.00/year
Machine Maintence and Repairs @ $200.00/month $2,400.00/year
Payroll Service @ $55.00/week $2,860.00/year
TOTAL OVERHEAD COST $67,560.00/YEAR


Let's assume that I have 3 shop employees and myself, for a total of 4 workers, each at the $27.27/hour labor cost. That's 4 men x 40 hours/week = 160 hours/week x 52 weeks = 8,320 labor hours/year LESS Holidays and Vacations of 128 labors hours x 4 men = 512 hours) = 7,808 Billable Labor Hours/Year. Subtract out Non-Billable Shop Hours for clean up, shop maintenence, etc; assume 1 hour per week per man x 4 x 50 weeks = 200 hours. 7,808 - 200 = 7,608 Billable Hours/Year.

If I spread my overhead across all of the available Billable Labor Hours, I get $67,560.00/7,608 = $8.88/hour Overhead Cost.

$27.17 Labor Cost + $8.88 OH Cost = $36.05 Hourly Shop Cost

If I want to make a modest profit of 20%, I have to mark up my shop cost by $7.21/hour = $43.26/Hour Shop Rate

Now, obviously, my costs are way too low, as most shops have a posted rate of at least $60.00 per labor hour. I know a number of body shop owners, and none of them are rich, so my numbers probably miss a few expenses common to the auto body business that I am not aware of.

Now, lets assume that the shop doing the work can get all of the materials needed at a final selling price of $14,000.00, including all of the engine, transmission, and rear end rebuild parts; the leather interior; the new wheels and tires; the modified suspension parts; the wood bed kit; electrical harness; body repair panels; primer and paint; etc . This leaves $10,000.00 for labor. If their shop rate is a low $50.00/hour, they have alloted 200 labor hours to do a complete frame off restoration of this truck, including rebuilding the motor, transmission and rear end; strip and powder coat the frame; install modified suspension; patch and paint the body; install new interior; install new wiring; etc.

IT CAN NOT BE DONE!!!!!!!!

The only way to gain more dollars to allocate to labor is to cut costs on materials. Even if the shop uses the cheapest Chiwainese crap that they can find, what can they possibly save-a couple thousand dollars? Assume that they buy all of the parts dirt cheap and take a minimal markup on the parts and charge $10,000.00 for parts; leaving $4,000.00 more for labor = 80 additional hours.

So, by using the absolute cheapest parts available and only making at most $1,000.00 or so in markup on them, they are left with 280 labor hours to do this job.

IT STILL CAN NOT BE DONE!!!!!!!

That's all anyone here is trying to tell you and the OP. Running a successful business is incredibly difficult. Properly pricing our work is time consuming and requires a real grasp of all of the costs involved, and a solid understanding as to how those costs affect the bottom line. Doing the math makes it clear that the OP is running a real risk by using this shop, and that is all everyone here is trying to say. No one is being negative, or dismissive, or rude about it. This is the reality of the business world, whether we like it or not.

The OP may wind up with a $40,000.00 restoration for $24,000.00. I, for one, hope he does. I really do. I just won't be holding my breath.

John

 

Hey John, great post except, it seems that your shop does not have any equipment or tools, oh maybe you got all that stuff as a Christmas Present

So even your cost breakdown is 'conservative'.

 

Oh, yeah I forgot to add the cost of depreciation, plus an allowance for machinery and tool upgrades and replacements.

Looks like that $50.00 low shop rate just became a $60.00 low shop rate! Gives them even fewer hours to complete the restore.

John

 

Easy to point out where you went astray... Try $7k in parts. $13k in paid labor and $4k in profit. Seems to work for me. Most shops I have ever worked for... if you want to work there you have your own tools...Also most owners of shops are willing to work for less than they pay their employees. On top of that, and probably the biggest part all of you are missing is that most shops do insurance work as their main money maker and most of these restoration projects they do for at or near cost on the side as free marketing and in between jobs if things are slow. And also because a lot of them genuinely like to work on cool stuff and get tired of fixing broken plastic bumper. It is basically filler revenue and they tend to grind through a few of them per year.

I can guarantee you shops around here will line up to do this kind of work for $24k. Probably even $20k. If you are out on the west or east coast... I can imagine things are different.

 

Really, how many employees bring their own compressors, lifts, paint booths, ventilation system...
I'm sorry Ryan, but that statement alone shows that you have NEVER owned a business, nor do you know anything factual about owning a business. I have owned a few business in my lifetime as have my 4 brothers and hundreds of friends over the years, Not a single business owner I have ever know will honestly agree with that premise.