This writeup has been months in the making, but I've been quite busy.
First, I want to thank Justin at R&D for being helpful and responsive, both when I got my IP from him and had issues, and when I just now bought injector nozzles.

Anyway...
First off, let me state for the record that the vehicle in question is my tan 88 F250 ext-cab 4x4 with a 7.3 IDI and ZF-5.
I've had a Banks turbo on it for the last couple of years, and have been slowly improving and trying to make more power with it. Key in this is that I want to make good power lower down in the revs; having an engine that runs poorly below 2K RPM(but has tons of power above) is /not/ my goal.


Back in February, I finally got fed up with my old IP. I had migrated from the one on the vehicle to a rebuilt 6.9 pump I got off someone parting their truck out. I had cranked up the fuel screw and it made decent power, but the seals were starting to leak. Time for a change!

I decided to go with an RD2-110 pump from R&D IDI Performance.

That pump came in near the end of Febuary, and I swapped out the pump on February 26th after work.
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150226_001.jpg - Lines and overburden pulled.
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150226_002.jpg - Old IP, showing my custom feed connector.
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150226_003.jpg - New IP, on bench, with fittings being attached
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150226_004.jpg - Lines in place, ready for bleeding.
Over all, I had the pump swapped in about an 80 minutes. That's for pulling all the overburden, pulling the pump, dropping the new pump in, and reattaching all the stuff.

When I got it bled, it was retarded. Advanced it, got it running. Drove it from where I was working on it to my apartment.
When I went to start it the next morning, it smoked horribly for about 30 seconds. It really felt like it was way too retarded, until something moved/caught up and the timing was normal. Once it was warmed up, it worked well enough.

I ended up having enough timing issues that I swapped my old pump in and sent it back. Justin got me a new pump really quickly and had it back to me soon.

Put that in, it worked a lot better. This is just the sort of thing you go through when you're aiming for performance.

I did have some different trouble with timing, though -- idle was too retarded, while the top range was too advanced -- either you have smokey startups or you lost power at the top end.
I ended up fixing this by taking a spare low idle advance cam and modifying it - trimmed about .020 off the idle side of the cam, which gives it more advance at idle.

I also learned that I could adjust the entire timing curve fairly consistently using the screw on the bottom of the low-idle advance lever. Justin couldn't tell me how this would affect the overall timing, so I just said "screw it" and messed with it until it worked.
I will say that adjusting the one screw a quarter turn is a lot easier than rotating the entire pump, and less likely to cause leaks/stress on the lines.

This ran surprisingly well; plenty of power and both a strong low-end and high end. A bit of a tick, and puffs of smoke when giving it too much fuel, meaning injector issues.


I ran this setup until last week, when I got my new injector nozzles.
I have an injector pressure tester, so I could buy just the nozzles from Justin, and assemble them myself. I did this to save money, and know what I was working with.

I did this last weekend, and put my new injectors in on Monday.
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150720_001.jpg - New injectors, ready to put in
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150720_002.jpg - Engine, ready to start the process
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150720_003.jpg - Engine, overburden off.
http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/image...150720_007.jpg - Old injectors, as they came out.
Note how oily the tips of 6 of my injectors were, and how carbonized the other two were.
I must have had a significant timing difference between them, and I was running retarded on 6 cyls.

Once I got it all in, I adjusted the timing a bit using the screw, and now:

Definitely more power. It's also smoother and more consistent. It feels powerful throughout the range from idle to about 3200 RPM, and revs up to 4K under load without issues.

Overall, a good improvement. I can't wait to haul a nice heavy trailer to test it; it gets up to 60 unloaded so easily the turbo barely spools.

If I did this over again, I would probably have gone with an RD4-180 pump -- My exhaust cleans up under WOT at around 2200, so there's room for improvement at the high end with more fuel.... And then a better turbo.
Also, consistent injector timing is /key/ to performance.

Anyway, I hope you guys find this as interesting as I do.

 

Looking good Rob, sounds great!

 

Runs pretty nice Rob! Got a couple questions for you:

Are you e-fueled? If so what inlet psi?

Did you time it with a light? Any idea what deg.?

What kind of boost/EGT's are you seeing (can't really read gauges in vid)...

 

Mechanical fuel pump. I need to throw a gauge on there to see what it does at higher loads.
No, I haven't. I will throw my timing light/lumy probe setup on there and see what I get, but I've learned that 'adjust it till it sounds good' seems to work best -
My considerations when timing is that if it's too advanced, it lacks power above 3K(under load), and if it's too retarded, it sucks in the idle-1400 range(i.e. have to rev to take off). Using those two criteria, there's a pretty narrow range where it 'works'.
Boost is the white analog gauge, and I can hit perhaps 16PSI. I've got the wastegate disconnected, BTW.
EGTS, I'm not sure. Why? I haven't pulled a heavy load long enough to get it warmed up. Typically, cruising at 60 I'm in the 500 range, on roughly level ground. Accelerate like I did there and I might hit 800 for a second or two before I upshift or have to back off due to the speed limit.

Before, I would back it off if it hit over 1050F; pretty rare unless on a /long/ grade or hauling a heavy trailer uphill at high speed.

 

I was mostly asking about the EGT's because that's quite a lot of fuel for the TE06H especially with no Intercooler. One of the biggest concerns with adding that much fuel is of course temps. I know you have not had a chance to test it under load, I was just curious if you saw much increase compared to before. I ordered a RD2-110 which will be on its way to me soon, but seeing that my truck is in pieces all over the yard I won't have any feedback any time soon. Nice to see how yours is working out...

 

so you got one bad ip right out of the gate and the second one was servilely maladjusted.
you really shouldn't introduce more fuel until you introduce more air first though brother,aka intercooler.

 

One of the great thing about diesels is that we run variable mix ratios. More load = more fuel, effectively.
With a given load(cruising empty at 60MPH, for instance), the pump rating doesn't matter -- you are only adding enough fuel to maintain that speed.
The only time the extra fuel comes into play is when you mash that pedal. And the temps from burning that extra fuel are the same way.
(Note: If you are seeing higher temps with your new pump under the same condition, your timing may be off -- and the engine is working harder to maintain the speed).

Also, as far as I understand, with EGTs you are really worried about the surrounding material temp because that's what causes melting: If the gas is at 2000F, but the valves, cyl walls etc are only at 200F, that's not a problem... Until you get enough heat transfer to raise the metal temps beyond the safe range.

Effectively what this means is that even when you /know/ that when you push that throttle down, you are making a lot of heat, you don't need to worry about it until your EGT meter gets up to a danger temp.... and some would say not to worry about it until you've stayed at that temp for more than say 5 minutes(Because of the large thermal mass of the pistons etc vs the tiny thermal mass of the sensor).


That all being said(and I'm not sure if it made any sense)... I want to get an intercooler on here. Because intercoolers are cool!


But I wanted real power. I've got flow numbers for my pump, and I've seen enough dyno testing to make me happy.
Also, I'm still not sure whether the second pump had issues or whether it was my injector setup... I'm not sure if I said anything about this or not, but when I swapped in my new set of good injectors, I used the 'stock' advance cam again, my fixes weren't needed.
In addition, I'm probably the only person to be using a mechanical fuel pump, so that probably contributes.

 

This is ridiculous. Every single manufacturing process has a failure rate... every single one. Even Mel's pump shop. What counts is how the vendor handles this situation when it happens. Sounds to me like the issue with the first pump was handled as best you could expect from a vendor.

Justin won't warrantee the pump if you run waste oil or try to time it with the engine running etc., but he stands behind his parts. I am not trying to be a cheer leader or go overboard promoting R&D, but the RD2-110 has the upgraded cam pin to handle the pump load,and a roller thrust bearing so the rotor head does not shred itself. It carries the same warrantee as any of his other pumps. High flow moose pumps are advertised with a bunch of disclaimers that they are for off road and recreational use only... this is not cheer leading, this is a rational, intelligent discussion about why I personally chose this pump over the alternatives.

The second pump was ~not severely mal-adjusted... Like any pump install it needed to be timed. The fact that Rob used the advance cam to change the timing is all on him. I would not have done that. And if you have mis-matched pop pressures and possibly a fuel inlet pressure "curve" from a mechanical lift pump there is no way to achieve correct timing. You will have issues, period. You are quite knowledgeable and you of all people should know that. Saying that you would rip it out of the truck and send it back because you couldn't time it is exactly the mentality that makes vendors have to cover their *** on warrantee issues.

If you like Moose, then buy moose... if you think they are superior to R&D please discuss your experience with one or provide real world information to support your argument instead of taking cheap shots at the "other guy"... I don't want to turn this into another huge argument and get the thread closed down, but you do see how the tone in your comment is clearly one to stir the pot and instigate a dispute, right?

 

ridiculous is right! i mention id go with Mels pump once and it's oh here we go. yet how many posts could i find with you guys promoting R&D's?
we agree! ridiculous! this site is not sponsored by R&D you guys so deal with it!
(if it ever becomes so,i'll willingly leave.)
you guys need to grow up and stop pretending that this is somehow his turf and is off limits to his competitors discussions and views for some reason.it's childish.



yes i understand.he latter clarified this.

 

Nor is it by Banks, so I suggest you pull your sig down...


However, I am in talks with IB, so I hope you live up to your words...


Pretty damn objective review if you ask me.

 

I treated the issue with the original pump like I do any other... If somebody has an issue, I have them give me a call and we sort things out over the phone, I make sure they check a few things. If its clearly an issue of the part itself, I tell them to send it back so I can see what the issue is myself. Most of the time is something incredibly simple, or nothing at all. In the case of Robs first pump, it was clearly something in the advance mechanism causing a surging issue, it was something that DIDNT show up on the test stand BEFORE or AFTER the pump was sent back (The larger cam pins and Higher RPM nature of the 110 require the timing curve to be very different from the lower volume pumps, they take more tweaking in otherwords). The solution was a whole new housing, which fixed the surging. Rob informed me that when he received the pump that the face cam was all out of whack (I cant remember if that was the only issue) but it was clear it was damaged in shipping. I told him he could send it back to me again and I would file a claim, otherwise he could adjust the face cam in to where it felt the best (The Face cam simply adjusts where your light load advance goes away and starts retarding the pump under load, road tuning something like this is pretty easy, it just takes a little tinkering) If the face cam comes out of adjustment, the only way to put it back in adjustment is to read the timing curve on the stand (Where my calibration specs are), or to adjust it on the truck where it feels the best (Which is arguably better anyway). Rob is a smart enough guy, that I didn't feel that this was out of his capability, however unprofessional that may sound... Not only did I pay shipping for both ways, but when he asked me if he could buy a set of just my nozzles to build his own set, I was happy to, and cut him a killer deal on a set of stage 1's for his trouble.


Sorry for being such a ****ty supplier....

 

Definitely.


The stock pump volumes are all over the place... Some aren't good enough for a 90, some are plenty for a 110... Its really a crapshoot, especially at high RPM.

 

Not to derail this too much, but can someone explain this one a bit more? Never heard of it, but sounds intriguing...

Mike

 

DISCLAIMER: This is to be done at your own risk. You will not find the below instructions in any manual or book, and I know of no one else to have tried this.

Lets see if I can explain this correctly:
On the driver's side of the IP, we have an aluminum cam/disk located on the throttle shaft(the shaft that gets rotated when you move the throttle linkage).
This cam is engaged with a lever that goes down the side of the IP, where it pushes against a small(1/4" diameter) pin sticking out of the side of the IP.
What this pin does is retard the timing. The further in the pin is, the more retarded the timing. The further out, the more advanced.
The official term for this system is a "light load mechanical advance".
At idle, the cam is at the most advanced position, with the lever not actuated. As you add throttle, the lever retards the timing somewhat.

Anyway, at the bottom of the lever where the pin is, you have an allen-head screw. This screw is what actually actuates the pin. This allows for some adjustment on the test bench to get the timing 'right'.

What I realized is that if you move this screw, the you move the overall timing curve. Tighten the screw down and you retard the engine. Loosen it up and you advance the engine.

I suspect that there is some non-linearity in all of this; that if you adjust this too far you will change the light load timing curve more than the full-load curve.

For me, it's kind of trial and error - I got my timing as close as I could by rotating the pump, and then messed with this screw for fine adjustment -- just a 6th of a turn here, 6th of a turn there.

I'll see if I can make a video one of these days.
Edit:
Made a video, uploading to youtube. Should be done in 2-3 hours.
Double edit:
video here

 

Basically adjusts "How much" in terms of "when" as I described above...


You have "Base" which is where you set things per a certain throttle position in terms of pump in relation to crank, at 2000RPM. (Basically as a medium to give good all around results through the power band)


The trimmer screw (The little screw at the end of the advance lever) basically determines how much retard is built into the throttle position.


The face cam can be adjusted to determine when the said retard comes in in relation to throttle position...


I haven't messed with face cam profiles, but the future of IDI timing "maps" is right in that little piece.... Me myself, I don't think we are that far yet, but if anybody needs to screw with it, have at it....


To sum it up.... I really do hate these pumps....