On Friday 12JUN15, I had another Active Regeneration with the Jackhammer Valve Issue.

On this one, I had the ForScan Flight Recorder active and cut the recorder off several seconds after the valve issue occurred so I the recorder would have a clear indication of what was actually going on within the PIDS being monitored at the moment the issue started.

1. Active Regeneration Valve Jackhammer Issue that occurred around 45 seconds into regeneration on Friday 12JUN15

2. The flight recorder was cut off right after the valve issue started in order to capture what was occurring at the moment of the issue

3. To get the file down to email size, I removed records at the head end of the file when the truck was not in regeneration (but left around 1000 to see what was being tracked prior to going into regeneration)

4. Of interest is the times when cylinders 1-4 were starved for fuel, but cyclinders 5-8 were receiving fuel for the regeneration. Of particular interest is rows starting with row # 6730 which to the best of ability to align the data with the valve issue when the valve hammering started. (Is this a potential root cause of the issue ? )

I would appreciate hearing feedback on what I am reporting.

I have turned this data over to my purchasing dealer who is attempting to get the Ford Engineers to respond to what is occurring.

The forum does not allow a posted Excel xlsx spreadsheet so the data is available at the following link:

Link to Excel Spreadsheet Data

 

Here is the response my Purchasing Dealer received back from Ford today relative to my logs that showed:

1. During Active Regeneration, Cylinders 1-4 were starved for fuel at a 0.00mg rate for 8 seconds

2. During this time Cylinders 5-8 being used in the regeneration were getting a balanced 16.039mg to 16.059mg fuel flow

3. During this condition, the valves started jack hammering during the active regeneration

By what you see below, Ford is not going to do anything and they have closed the case on this issue. My guess is we will likely see a 9th injector down the pipe with the 2017 models to avoid this issue.

Response:

I spoke with my assigned Ford field service engineer and asked to whom I might send your data logs for review. His reply, in sum, was nobody as the TSB Ford released effectively closed the investigation into the concern. No further action is to be taken by dealers when the issue is presented by a customer.

It is not uncommon for Ford to update or modify service bulletins so let's hope this one get's modified soon.

 

There's no such thing as "starved for fuel" on a diesel.

When it shows 0 mg demanded for fuel, it means you lifted the pedal long enough to shut off the demand fuel fuel. Meaning the injectors absolutely quit firing. This is normal, and has been a part of diesel injection for many years now. The 6.7L does it, the 6.4L, the 6.0L, and the 7.3L.

The cylinders still receiving fuel was strictly for the regen, which will remain active above 4 mph and under specified operating temperatures.

So your logs showed a normal action. The fuel was halted for combustion when you lifted your foot enough off the pedal. This caused the injection events to cease completely, which is what it's supposed to do, when cruising and taking your foot off the pedal. Mass fuel desired drops to zero, and fuel injected also drops to zero, because the pulse with is cut back to nothing in order to prevent the injectors from firing and creating combustion, and thus eliminating the creating power and acceleration.

Remember that diesels do not run at a set air/fuel ratio as a gas motor. It is perfectly normal for fuel to be completely disabled during deceleration.

That is why you got the response from Ford that you did. It did not show anything abnormal in your logs.

 

I think the "jackhammering valves" thing needs to be renamed. As a mechanic, if someone told me their valves were jackhammering I would have no clue as to what they were referring to.
Perhaps something is causing your truck to propagate flame into the exhaust beyond what is normal for a regen event? Being as it is an entire bank, the engine could be rocking in its mounts? I'm just throwing out a WAG but the valves aren't hammering pistons.

 

Exactly.

If the valves were hitting the pistons, there would be marks. That would be the simple diagnostics.

 

Been through this before.


If it were jackhammering, he have it fixed as the motor would have grenade.

 

This makes sense:

Being as it is an entire bank, the engine could be rocking in its mounts

Again Ford will not acknowledge what is actually going on.

We are still waiting for a response.

For myself, the first 2 times I had it 3 months in at 4100 miles, before I realized what was going on, the entire truck violently bucked and shook as I was trying to get off the 4 lane highway in traffic. Without question the entire chassis in being rocked

After twice having the issue and getting a handle what was going on, I started immediately downshifting (6 to 4, or 5 to 3) etc to get the issue to immediately stop. Then it rarely comes back during the same active regeneration and then will show up again in the next regeneration.

 

Have to tear down your new engine to find that out.

Would you like to have your new truck with 4000 miles on it torn down?

Again, we are awaiting Ford to publish what is actually going on.

We as owners should not be subject to having to do the analysis for Ford.

 

Did you have the TSB done where Ford replaced the exhaust valves?
I have read they are no longer doing this as it appears it was a waste of time and money. I truly hope my new truck is not afflicted with this.
What is the build date of your engine? I believe its etched into the top of the passenger side intake/valve cover.
It will read 201406221650 or something like that.

 

First, the TSB to replace the values does not apply to the 2015.

Ford is not recommending the 2015 valves to be replaced as the TSB issued last week instructs the customer to drive all active regenerations to completion and to not allow the truck to idle.

For myself, Ford did initially discuss replacing the valves, but after so many inidivudals have had valves replaced/cleaned to only have the issue reoccur, that was not an acceptable solution on a new truck 3 miles in with 4100 miles on it used 40% of the time in high work high terrain road conditions in Western NC. (How can valves need cleaning after 4100 miles)

The build date on my engine is unknown. Build dates on trucks and engines are 2 different things. I asked Ford what the build date was on my engine and Ford refused to provide that information. I of course know my truck was built in Mid May 2014.

Be aware there is a common rumor that up to 20,000 2015 engines were rebuilt at the factory in early 2014 when they held orders from February until early April after initially shipping trucks for a week. It is doubtful that Ford immediately placed these rebuilt engines into the delivered truck pool. They have likely been and are likely still dispersing them out. Are these engines related to the problem? Only Ford knows that answer and they will of course not provide that information.

 

My 2015 was built in February of this year.
The engine has "2015-01-26-1545" on the intake/valve cover. That would make it nearly a year after the engines in the rumor pool.

 

Could you post a picture of the location for the date stamp?

My servicing dealer said it was not available.

I would like to find it.

Appreciiated

 

So Ford is saying this is normal..... Have you shown them a Video. To show the shacking put a hulo girl on the dash ?


I wish you the best. Can you lemon law it?

 

Interesting you mention about flame propagation into the exhaust.

I have a second issue where on some regenerations I see EGT4 2 minutes into regeneration quickly shoot up from around 1100 degrees to as high as 1477 degrees in a matter of a few seconds. When EGT4 hits around 1350 the regeneration will immediately shut off just 2 to 3 miles into the event. EGT1 EGT2 and EGT3 stay stable and do not shoot upwards as EGT4 does. Then the distance since last regeneration gets a value of 100 miles added to it and due to a partial burn off then next active regeneration will occur sooner than normal.

My servicing dealer said the above was normal. When I brought it up a 2nd time with concern my EGT4 was noisy or faulty, they replaced EGT4. The situation still occurs in about half my regenerations and no DTC codes are shown nor stored.

But I have not seen flames ejecting from my exhaust pipe tips ;-)

 

There have been plenty of these valve cases showing impact with piston. When they cleaned the film from the stems they would stay out for awhile but as soon as the film would return the momentary sticking would return.