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2013 F150 Ecoboost 6R80 Transmission Failure Help

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2013 F150 Ecoboost 6R80 Transmission Failure Help

 
  #1  
Old 04-20-2015, 12:47 PM
Hurst89
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2013 F150 Ecoboost 6R80 Transmission Failure Help

I should start with a little back-story. We have always had great service out of the Ford trucks on our farm, and switched to Ford for the most part (minus a couple beater trucks we give to the maintenance crew) since the early 90s after a rough go with a batch of Chevy trucks on the farm. The latest addition is my father's 2013 F150 Ecoboost SCrew Lariat 4x4. It has been a decent truck with a few little issues but nothing major until the other day.

He was running errands in Lexington, KY and on his way to pick up medicine from the vet office, when all of a sudden his truck started jumping around, shifting gears, wrench light came on blinking, and then lost all forward motion as he coasted the truck into a side road from the 4-lane divided highway he was on. He pulled over and called me to come meet him so I could give him a ride home and called Ford Roadside Assistance to get the truck. It has between 38 and 39k miles on it right now, so still under powertrain warranty, so he figured no big deal. I get there and raise the hood and notice where all the fluid had come from. If you look at the pictures, you can see the lower cooler hose came off and the spring loaded hose clamp is down in the bend of the hose. I have worked on tractors and trucks since I was old enough to walk and read a manual, so I have seen hundreds of these clips, but never have I seen one of these clip type clamps slide down a hose on its own. It is towed to the nearest dealer, Paul Miller Ford in Lexington, and they get it in promptly the next morning to look at it. The service tech calls my father and asks if he had the transmission flushed recently, which we had, in November at the last service about 2 or 3k miles ago, the dealer we bought the truck from and has been the only one to raise the hood, had recommended a transmission flush at 30k to flush breakin metals out (sounded reasonable enough). The tech at Paul Miller says they are not going to be able to run it through warranty because their service department believes that the problem stemmed from a tech at the other dealer not properly replacing the clamp (which was what I first thought when I saw the truck and still believe).

So, now the saga really starts. We call the dealer who serviced it, Crossroads Ford in Frankfort, KY. We had informed them of the failure when it was towed to Paul Miller so they would be aware of what was going on in case someone called to verify service records. We called back after what Paul Miller said, and the service manager insisted that it isn't possible, that the hose would have blown off before it made it out of the bay because that is an extremely high pressure hose, and there is no way it would have made it from the end of November until now and got really defensive. We told him we just needed them to figure out a way to look at it or get it to their shop to look at, and were consequently told that was our problem, not theirs. So now we take it up to one of the owners of the dealership, and the service gets even worse.

We explain to him they are the only people to work on this truck EVER and that Paul Miller called to say the hose had not been properly reinstalled, worked off of the cooler as the temperatures got warmer and it had more flow, and now has cooked the entire transmission from running without fluid. He goes on the same rant as the service manager did, so my father finally tells him that he is giving them a chance to make this right because he really didn't want to get a lawyer involved in the situation for either party's sake. The co-owner hangs up on my Dad. Now I am fuming (I was sitting next to me Dad), so I call the dealership myself and get put through to the co-owner. I tell him who I am and that I don't appreciate him hanging up on my father when we have been very loyal customers to them on this truck from day 1. I explain to him why I believe that that hose clamp is the cause of the problem and how it is possible that it could make it through a winter without coming off (it has been an extremely cold winter in Kentucky this year and my father has not made any trips longer than 30 miles on the truck since the transmission service, so chances are it never got hot enough to open the thermostat and push much oil through the cooler). He's not buying my story at all and starts getting really rude with me as well, so I finally tell him this is going no where, you will be hearing from someone else over the dissue in the next few days since you do not want to cooperate (hinting it was going to turn into a legal matter) and we end that conversation.

About 30 minutes later they call back my father and say they will look at the truck, but we have to get it towed there. So we end up calling AAA and spend the next 4 hours of the afternoon moving the truck form Lexington to Frankfort. The guys at Paul Miller were extremely nice, they even put the hose back on and added fluid into the transmission so it could move around the lot and get loaded onto the AAA flatbed, all at no charge.

We get it to Crossroads as they are closing on Friday, and to make a long story short, once again, get no help from them unloading the truck, they are rude and still saying they did nothing wrong, etc. So we meet with the co-owner we have been talking with on the phone, and he starts out by interrupting me while I am explaining the situation, saying bluntly, "Why are you even involved in this situation?" I bit my tongue and just sat down to keep from really losing my temper and he then started to talk to my father and tell him how he was sure he could find a way for Ford warranty to cover this problem, it was probably a failed hose clamp (see pictures, don't think that is the case), and if they wouldn't he felt confident he could get the 3rd party extended warranty we purchased through them when we bought the truck to pay for the repair. My jaw is almost on the floor at this point. My father told him if it was a failed part that caused this, then yes, Ford's warranty should cover it, but if it was a service error, no, they need to cover it with their insurance. The co-owner just says that he knows it has to be a part.

So fast forward to today. Truck gets in the shop and they run diagnostics on it (remember, Paul Miller already dropped the pan and determined the transmission was toast). They call and say the transmission pump went out and that was what caused the whole problem (how did that cause all the fluid to come out of a cooler hose that wasn't clamped above the barb???). Then an hour later, they call again, better news. It looks like it was just the torque converter seal that went out, but they won't know if it's anything else until the transmission is out of the truck. I cannot believe what they are feeding my father (he's not very mechanically inclined, that's what I am on the farm for!). He hangs up and tells me what they said, and I ask him, how can they know it is a TC seal if the transmission is still in the truck? That can only be seen when the trans is dropped and the converter pulled! And they also told him they think the transmission is going to be alright.

Are there any experts on this transmission that can help me out? Am I missing something or is this dealer trying to cover up what happened, fix something cheap and fill it with fluid and hope it makes it long enough no one can pin it on their mistake last winter? The owner seemed very concerned whether or not we contacted for Customer Service before bringing the truck to him, and when we said not yet, he told us great, to let him take care of talking to Ford on this. Has anyone run into a situation like this before? Are 6R80s known for blowing off cooler hoses?

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to try to explain everything that has happened to present the clearest picture.





What we found when we opened the hood.





Hose clamp tightened around hose below where barb engages





Another view of where we found the hose clamp.


Best,

Hurst
 
  #2  
Old 04-20-2015, 01:14 PM
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First, I suggest contacting the Ford service rep on this website.

Otherwise, when the trans ran out of fluid it could have caused the pump to fail by running dry. If the pump failed first then it might not have burn up the clutches. But if it was my truck I would prefer to have the whole transmissions torn down for inspection.

I don't know about this trans exactly, but on most of them there is a cover you can pull off to see the ring gear and converter. If there is fluid on the rear side of the converter then you could tell that the converter seal failed. But since you documented the hose coming off the cooler, you know that is how the trans ran out of fluid.

I wouldn't buy anymore trucks from that dealership. Good luck.
 
  #3  
Old 04-20-2015, 04:08 PM
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First of all Hurst, welcome to FTE. No apologies are needed from you sir. Your story was well detailed.

i took the liberty of sending Crystal a PM. Crystal is our Ford Service Rep and she has the ability to reach out and get things done.

I'm really sorry that your dad's truck failed at the hands of faulty service. For what it's worth, the 6R80 transmission is reliable as all get out and actually has a factory recommended service interval of 150,000 miles, towing or not. I wouldn't go that long but the point is that your dealer is a fricken crook, a thief and a liar. You did not need a transmission service at 30K miles.

I would start a Ford customer service claim and I wouldn't trust or believe a word that your dealer tells you. If he says the sky is blue, verify that it's actually blue.

I wouldn't settle for anything less than a replacement transmission and TC and a damned fine warranty on both to boot. And, I wouldn't allow this dealer to perform the work.

Please keep us in the loop sir.
 
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:14 PM
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^^what they said^^


Sorry to hear that you're going through this hassle with the dealer. Pretty obvious, by the pictures, the clamp was not installed properly.


Good Luck!
 
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:15 PM
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sorry, double post!
 
  #6  
Old 04-20-2015, 05:17 PM
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Thanks for all the help! I was about to ask who the Ford Rep was, but you beat me to it! I have never had a problem with a Ford transmission since an AOD in a 92 f150 in the late 90s, so I am a believer in Ford's transmission designs. I was a little skeptical back in November when we went to pick the truck up why they had flushed the transmission when Ford says 150k at the earliest under Severe duty, but never thought it would hurt the transmission and the logic was reasonable enough that I didn't really think too much about it.

The other humorous thing I forgot to mention was the dealer co-owner told me they don't unhook a cooler line to do a flush. This was not long after he was joking about how he doesn't even know how to change the oil on his car, so explaining my technical reasoning was not going to help him much...

Even if the pump did take a fall before the rest of the transmission and didn't burn the clutches to pieces, I don't think anyone would be able to say that transmission didn't suffer some sort of damage with this whole ordeal. I should have asked the co-owner of the dealership if he would mind it if I pulled his cooler hose off, ran his car's transmission empty, and then put the hose back on, filled it up, and called it good, if he would still think the same of that transmission before doing that. But I agree, I really hope there is a way to get this work done by another dealership that is professional and competent. I am worried that the truck will come back dinged or scratched.

Hopefully I will hear something from Crystal soon and we can get the truck back and going ASAP. Not much fun for the old man to not have his truck on the farm... I'll keep you guys updated on the progress.

Best,
Hurst
 
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:16 PM
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I know folks may disagree; however, I'm going to have Ford change my trans fluid at 30,000 mi also; I want them to drop the pan like this (not disconnect the cooler lines). I really like this mechanic's videos. He is very knowledgeable about Ford vehicles.

 
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:26 PM
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That dealer screwed up and he doesnt want to own up to it. I sure would not let him repair the truck.
 
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:46 PM
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I know what you mean! I wish there was a way to get the truck to another dealer, but the best service department around won't touch it because they know it is not a "Ford Warranty Claim" but a dealer screw up. I'd like to think they would want to fix it right once and for all to save their reputation from any further degradation, but I feel like that is hopeful thinking... Hopefully I'll hear something from Crystal soon, and she can provide some insight onto how Ford resolves these issues.

Hurst
 
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Old 04-20-2015, 08:57 PM
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If Crystal doesnt get any satisfaction for you, I would consider lawyer time.
 
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Old 04-20-2015, 09:29 PM
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Oh me Hurst, sorry about this! I agree if this dealer doesn't do right, lawyer. His reputation needs to get out in your area...
 
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Old 04-21-2015, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hurst89 View Post
...Hopefully I will hear something from Crystal soon and we can get the truck back and going ASAP...
Hi, Hurst!

Welcome to the forum; I'm Crystal, the Ford Service rep here. Since you're a new member, you may not have PM access yet. If that's the case, I recommend reaching out to my colleagues at the Customer Relationship Center so they can help. They can be reached at 1-800-392-3673. If you do have the ability to send PMs, shoot one my way and I'll get to work on this. I'll need your full name, best daytime phone number, VIN, current mileage, and the dealership that is presently working on your truck.

Crystal
 
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:21 AM
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You needed a trans flush because the dealer needed a quick profit. If they told you they were going to flush your engine oil instead of draining it and replacing the filter, would you go for it?

Those clamps don't move on their own. It might be possible under some conditions to blow the hose off, but the clamp would still be in place.
 
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:51 AM
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Ask them how they flushed the fluid if they didn't remove a line. They can suck the fluid out through the dipstick tube without dropping the pan, but that isn't a flush. I'm not aware of any way to flush the trans fluid without removing a line...but I also don't know everything.
 
  #15  
Old 04-21-2015, 10:15 AM
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If Crystal isn't able to help, which she has be able to on many situations, you could contact your insurance company, file a claim to have it fixed and provide them with the service records so they could go after the dealer that is refusing to fix a mistake. Unless you have a lawyer on staff it would be easier to let the insurance company handle that part.

I hope you can get it fixed without going to that, but if they refuse to fix their mistake, that is how I would proceed.

Leon
 

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