I am looking to upgrade to a 4bbl carb and intake before I take my car out this spring. My Torino is a stock 400 2-bbl right now with dual exhaust. In the next year or two (depending on my finances) I plan to do a full build on my engine, but for now this is all I can afford.


So when I do upgrade, I want to reuse the intake and carb with the newly "built" 400.


Any recommendations on the carb and intake choice? My speed shop guy is a Holley dealer, so I'd prefer to stick with Holley for the carb. He thought Holley 600 would be okay, but I was think maybe a 650, especially if I wanted to use it on the built engine. I was leaning toward a Weiand 8010, but it looks like the made in USA version are all gone. The is a street only car and will stay that way.


Any advice appreciated.

 

Welcome to FTE! This is the place to be!

The question you need to answer before choosing the carb is how wild you will go with the build. That will determine how much carb you need. For instance, on my build Tim said that I shouldn't go with less than a 750 as a 400 capable of 500+ HP needs it. But, if you aren't going with all the goodies like I am (see my sig) then maybe a 650 is adequate. Tim frequently uses an Edelbrock 650 on his stock-headed builds.

I've mentioned Tim a couple of times. That's Tim Meyer of TMeyer Inc. He is THE Ford 400 guru as well as a supporter and frequent poster on here. In fact, he recently had a shootout between Edlbrock and Weiand intakes in a thread here that might help you make that decision.

So, given how much Tim gives back to this community, both in knowledge as well as support, I recommend buying all you can from him. You'll find he has pretty much the only good piston assortment available for the 400, as well as pretty much anything else you want. Plus, he has a few custom cam grinds that he's found work well on the 400 and can have one ground for you by Comp Cams. Give him a call.

 

Thanks for the great response Gary. When I build my engine, I am looking for somewhere in the neighbourhood of 350-400 hp. My plan is to build my engine to look stock on the outside (other than carb, intake, headers). So I want to use the stock heads (1972 400 heads). I want to build an engine that will be a great highway cruiser, but well have some serious kick when I want to open it up.


I plan to buy my pistons and some other parts from Tim when it comes to rebuilding. I would buy the carb and intake from him, except that I am in Canada and the exchange rate is brutal right now, combined with the shipping and duty it would make it too expensive. If I were in the US, I'd definitely get everything from Tim, but that stupid border crossing makes it SO much more expensive. The local guy I deal with is a very good carb/tuning guy and would help me with the tuning if I buy from him (plus he's a friend). I know he mostly deals with Holley, but he is an Edlebrock dealer too.


I did read the intake shoot out thread and it looks like the Made in China Weiand makes more power, while the Edelbrock makes more low and torque. Being that I have a car, I'd probably prefer a bit more top end power, but I don't know if I want to spend cash on an intake cast in China, since most Chinese castings seem to be terrible.


I was thinking something like this for the carb:


https://www.holley.com/products/fuel...parts/0-80783C


Thanks again for the input, and I appreciate other opinions.

 

I'm not a Holley fan as I find the Eddy carbs to be more set-and-forget, so I'd probably do the 650 CFM Eddy Thunder carb. And, the Eddy intake as well - especially if your friend is an Eddy dealer. And, that combo would work well for the engine as is as well as when you rebuild it.

As for building the engine, if you get the compression ratio to ~9.5:1 and go with a cam that matches the build you'll have a very strong engine regardless of the intake you choose. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

Thanks again for the helpful information Gary.


Why do you like the Eddy carbs better? Other than the "set it and forget it" is there anything else that makes it better? Is that what most of the 400 guys here run? I know I can get either either Holley or Eddy carbs from the speed shop, but he is more of a Holley guy.


I will likely stick with the Eddy intake. I know I can get the made in China Weiand, but I just don't trust the castings from China. If I could source a USA made Weiand, I'd probably go with it instead.

 

Ohboy.... get ready for an earful... where the verbosity and amount of mouth-foaming Depend®s on his crankiness and orneriness at the time of authoring....

 

I doubt you can find the USA Weiand, but ask Tim - he bought up all he could find.

I have a bad taste in my mouth for Holleys. I bought a 1969 Dodge Super Bee new in May of '69, and it had a Holley. Prior to that I was all GM and they used Rochesters or Carters, so that's what I grew up on. But, the Holley leaked, blew power valves, and was poorly jetted initially. In fact, it was warped from the factory and I had to have it machined to take the warp out.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago when I bought Rusty. He came with a Holley sitting on an Eddy intake, but idled poorly and got very poor MPG - but it ran great at WOT. I swapped the 4160 Holley for a 1406 Eddy and the idle cleared up, the off-idle response was much improved, and the MPG got much better - but the WOT wasn't quite as good. Turns out both carbs were jetted out of the box, but the Holley was very rich and the Eddy was almost spot-on.

The bottom line, in my way of thinking is, a Holley gives more tunability and better WOT performance than the Eddy, but the power valves and accelerator pumps are fragile and cause significant problems when they fail. However, the Eddy uses an enrichment mechanism and accelerator pump that are rugged, so it is a much more set-and-forget design. Given that, if I'm going racing it'll probably be with a Holley, but if I'm placing the carb on a DD it'll be with something else.

 

Carb - 650, 670 Street Avenger, QFT 680. Something in this range for that power level.

Intakes - Edelbrock Performer or Weiand Action Plus. For 350 to 400HP there probably isn't 5HP difference between the two. Apparently above 400 the Weiand begins to pull away, at least the new Weiand. Used Performers are super cheap and adequate for your build. I kind of wish Edelbrock would make a Performer RPM for the 351M/400.

The biggest thing is CAMSHAFT! Get the pistons from TMeyer Inc., solves the low compression problem that contributes to the dog factor of the original engines.

 

Thanks guys for the helpful posts. Great info on the carbs Gary. I guess regardless of what carb I pick I will got with something in the 650 range. I will probably go with the Eddy intake since it looks like the made in USA Weiands are pretty much all gone. Tim doesn't have any either.


When I do a full build, I do plan on getting Tims Pistons and a decent cam. But fo now I hope at least a 4bbl carb will make some improvement over my stock 2100 that needs a rebuild anyway.

 

I'm pretty sure a 4bbl will make a difference. Yesterday I pulled our new-to-us boat ~135 miles, and a few times on the turnpike running 65 the speed would start to drop off on long hills. But when the secondaries on the 1406 Eddy opened up the speed picked right back up. Don't think the 2150 would have done that.

 

I have another question. I have been looking at the Holley's and the Eddy's comparing specs. I noticed that the Holleys are available in zinc or Aluminum, while Eddy's are all Aluminum. Is there one that's better than the other? I also noticed on the Holley 670 Street Avenger, the zinc carb is listed as having smaller throttle bore diameter even though they are both rated at 670 CFM.


Thanks again for that info Gary. I am hoping the 4bbl helps a bit with the top end power, as the engine goes pretty flat once the RPM's build. I know a lot is probably the stock cam too, but that will come later when I rebuild the whole engine.

 

I like aluminum. It is much lighter, and there's no zinc coating to come off. However, it tends to conduct heat to the gas more, so sometimes a insulating spacer helps the aluminum carbs.

And, don't expect too much of the 4bbl with the stock cam - especially if the stock cam timing is still being used. They were badly retarded for emissions sake, which hurt the power, and especially top end power.

 

Thanks again Gary. My 400 is a 1972 engine so the timing isn't retarded. I replaced the timing chain last year anyway so I know it's straight up. My engine is basically identical (cam specs too) to the 1971 400, but it has 8.4:1 compression.

 

Good! That'll help bunches. Given that, the 4bbl should make a difference.

 

One other question. Edelbrock recommends the Fel Pro MS96020 valley pan gasket for their intake. When I check rock auto for a 1972 400 it lists MS96013 as the correct gasket. It shows this one as the 1971-74 400's and the later number for 1975+ 400's.


Does it matter which gasket I use? Is the turkey tray gasket what most people use on the 400s?