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New Powerstroke Owner in Denver

 
  #16  
Old 07-21-2015, 07:24 PM
pinbill
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I have done my homework. Here is a list of questions.


1. I didn't see a pre filter on the truck in your thread “my latest veggie conversion” are they absolutely needed?


2. I also didn't see a HIH line on the FPR looped return on that truck. Is the HIH looped return a premium option? Wrapping the hose bundle going to the tank would make a HOH so the looped return wouldn't gel. Would that be enough?


3. Where did you tap into the coolant lines for the system?


4. Is the aux coolant pump placed at the end the system so it pulls the coolant through the system or at the beginning to push coolant through?


5. What type of Purge Valve do you like to use?


6. Do you have any ideas on how to wire the second fuel pump? I was thinking about using a switch and relay on the diesel pump power wire to power the wvo pump. This way the transition between the two pumps would be seamless. One would always be running.


7. There is a check valve in place on the diesel side in the engine compartment right before the heads. The WVO side needs only one check valve between the primary WVO filter and the purge valve, correct?


8. What type check valve do you use?


9. Denver rarely gets below 0F. I might add an electric heater pad on the tank if I need it. You mention a coolant loop heat exchanger in the tank for extreme cold climates. Are you using a FPHE in the tank?


10. The NPT tees you are using for your HIH fittings don't look like regular galvanized ones. The hose fittings look brass. Are tees you are using the normal galvanized plumbing tees? They rusted out pretty quick in by benz.




With these questions answered I will have a really good handle on how to build the truck. I get home mid September and the deadline for the truck is mid December. We are driving it from Denver to MI on grease!!!


Thanks again for all the help,


Bill
 
  #17  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by pinbill View Post

I have done my homework. Here is a list of questions.


1. I didn't see a pre filter on the truck in your thread “my latest veggie conversion” are they absolutely needed?

That conversion used the BFT 'Vegistroke' V4 kit. The V4 manifold has pre-filter built in. Yes, you need a pre-pump filter to protect the pump. The Racor PS120 is all I use now on my systems and I've even been using this on the V3/V4 systems because their stock pre-filter is a PITA to service and has very little capacity for debris.

Dave is now stocking the Racor at Wvo and svo diesel to vegetable oil conversion kit | Veggie Garage



2. I also didn't see a HIH line on the FPR looped return on that truck. Is the HIH looped return a premium option? Wrapping the hose bundle going to the tank would make a HOH so the looped return wouldn't gel. Would that be enough?

Again, no looped return option on the standard V3/V4 kits. I have designed a way to do this with those kits, but it requires using a stand-alone fuel pump...

I do not give my customers the option of HOH. TIH (aka HIH) provides MUCH more heat to the fuel and makes a considerable difference in cold weather operation. My looped return design using TIH provides a multitude more heat and reduces the strain on the pump by getting the fuel HOT before the pump.



3. Where did you tap into the coolant lines for the system?

I tee into the heater hoses right above the pass-side valve cover near the firewall and I only use brass tee's.






4. Is the aux coolant pump placed at the end the system so it pulls the coolant through the system or at the beginning to push coolant through?

I run hot coolant from the engine to the TIH section that goes from the tank to the pump, then it goes to the heated pick-up in the tank, then to the TIH section for the looped return. Then into coolant pump and coolant wrap for filter and finally back to the top of the water pump (return coolant from heater core).

The heater core uses 5/8" heater hoses and the coolant pump I've been using is for 3/4" hose. Sooo, I feed the first TIH with 5/8" hose, then coolant runs thru the 3/4" hose TIH section. Then exits TIH with 5/8" hose to the Hot Fox heated pick-up and then 5/8" to feed the return section of TIH where it exits using 3/4" hose to go into the coolant pump. It's 3/4" hose leaving the pump and going to the copper coolant wrap, and finally 5/8" from the wrap back up to the tee near heater core.

So, the pump is on the return-coolant hose. Mostly because that is a convenient location for me.

Of course, there are a million ways to do this... Draw a flow diagram and map it out to determine what works best for you.



5. What type of Purge Valve do you like to use?

I've been using a 1/4" SS solenoid valve from McMaster.


6. Do you have any ideas on how to wire the second fuel pump? I was thinking about using a switch and relay on the diesel pump power wire to power the wvo pump. This way the transition between the two pumps would be seamless. One would always be running.

I run both pumps (and the purge valve and coolant pump) using relays. I use the factory power for the OE fuel pump to power the SWITCHES for the fuel pumps, coolant pump and purge valve. This maintains the factory fuel pump shut-off feature. (the pump times out if the engine doesn't start in 30secs and of course the inertia switch that kills pump in a crash)

I also run (2) switches for the pumps so I can turn on both pumps at once. This does reduce the idiot-proofness of my system because it also means both pumps can be turned off - but I prefer to have this control. With bigger injectors, etc running both pumps insures plenty of fuel under high demand.



7. There is a check valve in place on the diesel side in the engine compartment right before the heads. The WVO side needs only one check valve between the primary WVO filter and the purge valve, correct?

Yes, when running on diesel we need to prevent fuel from going into the VO system. The purge valve allows us to bypass the VO-side CV and return diesel to the VO tank. The line from purge valve needs to be dedicated and go directly to tank. I use 1/4" 30R9 (or equal) fuel hose for this.


8. What type check valve do you use?

3/8" brass CV


9. Denver rarely gets below 0F. I might add an electric heater pad on the tank if I need it. You mention a coolant loop heat exchanger in the tank for extreme cold climates. Are you using a FPHE in the tank?

Electric heat is a bad idea IMHO. Even 30amps will not produce enough heat to make any difference to a tank full of fuel. The original Vegistroke kits used an electric heater on the filter to help 'thaw' the solid chunk of oil and help get fuel to flow through the filter media at low temps. The 3/8" copper filter wraps that I make produce a multitude more heat and actually contribute to overall VO temps with no downside. The coolant pump insures we have adequate flow through this 'restriction'.

For your climate, I recommend a Hot Fox heated pick-up as a minimum. For coooold climates (high elevations, Canada, Alaska, etc), I also recommend a coolant loop in the tank (1/2" or 5/8" alum tubing). I can share some design considerations if you decide to go this route.



10. The NPT tees you are using for your HIH fittings don't look like regular galvanized ones. The hose fittings look brass. Are tees you are using the normal galvanized plumbing tees? They rusted out pretty quick in by benz.

I prefer to use all brass fittings for TIH because they do not rust in salty environments. Do NOT use galvanized because the galvanizing fails and may contaminate your cooling system. I have used black iron pipe and half nipples (instead of barbs) in the past - but even with very careful painting they have a limited lifespan in severe environments.


With these questions answered I will have a really good handle on how to build the truck. I get home mid September and the deadline for the truck is mid December. We are driving it from Denver to MI on grease!!!


Thanks again for all the help,

You're welcome!! I'm going to be passing thru on my way up to Basalt/Aspen next month.

Bill


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  #18  
Old 07-22-2015, 09:37 PM
pinbill
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Hey Jayson,

I really feel like I have my head around this. With the system from Dave and your help the plan is looking great. I have the coolant plumbing mapped out and have been working on a parts list. Here are my latest thoughts.

I am going to pass on the heated FPR return loop. All the lines bundled together will keep things moving enough to get my system started. I can add TIH later if I need it. I think the inside tank coolant loop would be over kill. I am nervous about condensation heating the tank that much.

My plan is to put the hot fox close to the side of the tank in between the fuel pickups and fuel gauge. Tal his way I can put an electric pad type heater as an aux heater just to loosen up the grease near the hot fox if there is a problem. Or I just run diesel if it gets that cold.

Here is a picture of the tank.

RDS Auxiliary Fuel Tank/Toolbox Combo — 91 Gallon, Model# 72647 | Auxiliary-Transfer Tank Toolbox Combos| Northern Tool + Equipment

Here are my three questions:

So far, I am planning to use the existing fuel ports for the return lines. Is that a bad idea? or should I add new fittings on top of the tank? I am worried the return grease might not flow into a pickup tube full of frozen WVO.

How do you keep the pre filter from gelling? I am worried about the prefilter getting clogged.

Do you use a grill cover in the winter?

I really can't thank you enough for all the information. I would take you out to dinner and give you some grease when you come through Denver, but I won't be home.

Thanks again,

Bill
 
  #19  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:30 AM
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The electric heat will do nothing but tax your charging system before it burns out. Don't waste your time.

If you are using a FPR, its silly to return that fuel to the tank. The TIH loop is what you NEED to run VO in any weather. THIS is where you get all the heat you need - specifically to get oil flowing thru the pre-pump filter.

Aluminum tubing is $1/ft. Viton-lined fuel hose (30R9 or equal) is ~$4/ft. You need heater hose anyway. All it takes to do TIH is the ends. You can do this for $6/end if you use black iron tee's and use 1/2" pipe nipples cut in half instead of 3/4" barbs. Although these eventually rust and look bad, they won't fail for a loooong time. I'd rather see ya redo your TIH someday than have a system that doesn't work well. If its money you are counting, please consider how much diesel you don't have to buy when your system is rocking (in any weather).

The Hot Fox is your pick-up. I recommend using one of the RDS tank fuel fittings for the purge line. If you use a regulated fuel pump like the WVO Designs pump, there will be no external 'return'. If you use a stock SD fuel pump, you want to tee the return into the suction line coming from the Hot Fox like I did below - regardless of whether you choose TIH or the inferior and likely inadequate HOH.

This is how I plumb the Hot Fox so all the lines are going in the same direction. Notice the tubing for the return fuel is tee'd into the fuel line coming out of Hot Fox.





Here's my 'cheap' TIH.




Making a bundle with TIH's, purge line (and fuel level sender wires), wrapping it with Armaflex or similar insulating tape, then slipping that inside vinyl hose makes a super-clean - and SSJ-approved - install.

Here's one of my bundles being put together: I use PVC pipe (and silicone spray!) to fish the bundle thru the vinyl hose.





This is one of my Excursion tank installs in an F250.



Here's a 91gal Veggie Garage tank with Hot Fox. No looped return (Vegistroke Kit...).


 
  #20  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:43 AM
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I dunno if we talked about thread sealant yet, but all I will use is Loctite 545 thread SEALANT. (I did not say thread locker...) The rectum seal 5 (white, watery crap) sucks and very few people know how to use thread tape correctly - so I strongly recommend this product. Search amazon, etc for the best deal.

Here is an F650 dash I built for the VO system switches I have made and also the fuel pressure and fuel level gauges. I will not do a conversion without a fuel pressure gauge - EVER. You can choose not to have a fuel level gauge, but it's just dumb not to know what fuel pressure is...


 
  #21  
Old 07-26-2015, 07:19 PM
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Dude!! Those are awesome pics with great info. I am all set to get this started. I will post pics when I get going, but it won't be till the fall.

I won't be in town when you roll through or I would buy you dinner and give you some grease.

Thanks again for all the help. Have fun in Colorado.

Bill
 
  #22  
Old 07-31-2015, 10:46 AM
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So.... I just left my job in NY. WhooooHOOOOOO!!!!! and the way I quit I can never go back. I will be back in never mid august if you are coming through get in touch. I will buy you dinner.

I had two more questions:

Where can you get a driven diesel FPR? I have only seen them in complete kits.

How do you keep the pre filter from gelling up with cold wvo?

Bill
 
  #23  
Old 08-03-2015, 06:50 AM
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I'm going to Riffraff in the Rockies in Dolores, CO the weekend of the 18th, then Basalt for a couple weeks. It'll be first week of Sept before I roll back thru Denver area.

I've used the Magnafuel FPR from Summit on all my conversions. It uses JIC fittings and I've never had one leak or fail (220k on the one in my truck).

We've had no issues with the Racor PS120 pre-filter in cold weather when using looped return. The hot oil being sent into the filter quickly creates a wormhole thru the Crisco and before long, melts the contents of the filter. The guys in NJ, etc haven't even insulated theirs - which would help even more.
 
  #24  
Old 08-03-2015, 08:14 AM
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Thats great. Beautiful country out there. We just went camping in Rigeway and Crested Butte. We took the Last Dollar Road from Ouray to Telluride. When you drive to Basalt look into taking county road 12 to 133 it goes from Crested Butte to Carbondale over Kebler Pass. It is a seasonal road that is well maintained. Crested Butte is my favorite town in Colorado. You would also pass blue mesa reservoir on the way to Gunnisson.

I am sold on the looped return on the WVO.

Thanks again for all the help.

Bill
 
  #25  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:06 AM
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Just saw your post on "thoughts on this WVO setup" thread. Looking at the Magnafuel MP9925b FPR.
 
  #26  
Old 08-03-2015, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pinbill View Post
Thats great. Beautiful country out there. We just went camping in Rigeway and Crested Butte. We took the Last Dollar Road from Ouray to Telluride. When you drive to Basalt look into taking county road 12 to 133 it goes from Crested Butte to Carbondale over Kebler Pass. It is a seasonal road that is well maintained. Crested Butte is my favorite town in Colorado. You would also pass blue mesa reservoir on the way to Gunnisson.

I am sold on the looped return on the WVO.

Thanks again for all the help.

Bill
Fantastic. I will definitely go that way. I have never been in that whole corner of the state - I'm really looking forward to it!! We are doing a 'cruise' on Saturday all around Dolores including some miles on the million dollar highway.

I was gonna drive my vegged TDi wagon, but the water pump failed yesterday and I dunno if I have time to do that project before I go. I guess the 'ole dually is gonna take another trip!!
 
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Old 08-12-2015, 09:43 PM
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Hey Jason,

My parts are starting to come in. I am getting pretty excited. I need to order fittings. How do you feel about using steel orb and an flare fittings with WVO? I am leaning towards aluminum but they are pretty pricey.
 
  #28  
Old 08-13-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by pinbill View Post
Hey Jason,

My parts are starting to come in. I am getting pretty excited. I need to order fittings. How do you feel about using steel orb and an flare fittings with WVO? I am leaning towards aluminum but they are pretty pricey.
Lol, the steel ones are pricey enough!! I use the anodized steel fittings everywhere I can. I use brass npt fittings/adapters.

It's probably gonna be after the first when I roll back east from Basalt/Glenwood Springs...
 
  #29  
Old 08-15-2015, 02:34 PM
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Hey Jayson,

What purge return line are you using? It looks smaller than 3/8 closer to 5/16 judging by the pic.
 
  #30  
Old 08-16-2015, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by pinbill View Post
Hey Jayson,

What purge return line are you using? It looks smaller than 3/8 closer to 5/16 judging by the pic.
The purge line is 1/4" hose. Here is the Excursion tank I'm putting in an F250 now. You can see the end of TIH on the left and Hot Fox on the right. The purge hose is in the foreground on left (not hooked up yet!)

You see here where I tee'd the return from FPR into the suction line from tank - making my 'looped return'.




Here's some pics of the Veggie Garage engine plumbing kit.

Pass-side rear head


Drivers-side rear head


Diesel filter

 

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