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Adding Posi/limited slip 95 f250

 
  #31  
Old 02-23-2015, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 87thhunter View Post
Thanks again and again guys. I wanted the Detroit trutrac - but i got the LS for half the price used and with my budget it at least IS some improvement, the truck has pulled EVERYTHING i've ever put behind it - i just wanted "a little" more traction when i needed it i have spun front and rear tires on the dirt pulling wagons i should not pull 25k pounds, no tonge wait complete stop on a small hill you spin your tires on loose gravel, but it did pull it none the less..........

Only question i go threw a lot of mud pulling the wagons, - Will a LS kick in while im already moving 10-15 mph - meaning your not stuck yet oh crap its slowing down tires are spinning, but does the LS kick in at this point or only when you first take off
Limited slip like the one you bought is always working no matter what ground you're on or how fast you're going

Edit don't forget to run friction modifier in your rear end now
 
  #32  
Old 02-23-2015, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MI02SVT View Post

Edit don't forget to run friction modifier in your rear end now
I'll second that. Don't depend on the gear lubes that say they have that in it. Add your own.
 
  #33  
Old 02-24-2015, 01:37 PM
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Ill make sure i pick some up for this weekend!
Also from what i've been reading as long as i keep everything the same - i should be able to just swap carriers and not set the backlash or pinion.
I will check it, but can anyone verify that if i keep the shims same side the bearings all the same where they came of ect.
 
  #34  
Old 02-24-2015, 02:02 PM
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In theory, yes. Manufacturing tolerances can throw a wrench into it, though...
I'd want to check the pattern & backlash before the swap and again after.
 
  #35  
Old 02-24-2015, 02:17 PM
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I plan on checking it and crossing my fingers......who knows may be one of the 5% that have to reset everything or I'll get lucky and its all within spec
 
  #36  
Old 02-24-2015, 03:11 PM
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I got a set of used 4.10's for my dump truck and swapped them with the old shims and all was well.
 
  #37  
Old 02-24-2015, 05:12 PM
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While I know it's a redneck way, if you do not have a dial indicator with a magnet or visegrip base, you can still get it right if just swapping carriers. (not swapping gears or pinion bearings) The rule of thumb for backlash is to feel it, but not see it. It sounds crazy I know but grab the ring gear once it's all tight and rock it up and down. If you can feel the backlash but not see it, it's good.

Now before I get flamed, I know how to set up gears, have done it many times but many of the techs I worked with tested this theory many times and verified it with a dial indicator. It is always around .005-.007.

Ford spec is looser than this, but most shops shoot for .004-.009 or so.
 
  #38  
Old 02-24-2015, 07:23 PM
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Installed a Detroit Truetrac in my F250 this past fall. BIG IMPROVMENT!!!

I pull a medium weight trailer 4000 to 7000lb. No more slipping one tire on wet roads when taking off.

As for the the install. I checked the backlash of the original (.013") before removal. Swapped my ring gear to the new carrier. Installed with factory shims in original positions and checked backlash again (.012"). Worked out great!

Todd
 
  #39  
Old 03-01-2015, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by eakermeld View Post
You are correct. I should have said "turning under power".

Here are a couple of past discussions on this topic.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...-truetrac.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-truetrac.html
While I agree that automatic lockers are poor to terrible for towing (and an incredibly terrible idea for towing heavy trailers with zero tongue weight), they do NOT lock "under power". They lock when one tire loses traction. Whether you are coasting or driving they will stay unlocked when turning unless you spin the inside tire (the only one being driven when it's unlocked).

And that's what makes them terrible with farm-type trailers that weigh a lot but have zero tongue weight. Heavy trailers take a lot of force to move, but with zero tongue weight they don't help the tires hook up to provide that extra force. So the inside tire essentially never has enough traction (even on pavement) so it spins, making the locker lock.


Originally Posted by 88F15095F150 View Post
try an aussie locker if all you use it for is towing. Ive heard from lots of guys they are very well built and never fail. And the installation is very simple. the only real complaint I have heard is they make a very audible ratcheting noise during turns but thats what you get with an automatic locker. They are very affordable as well.
As noted above, automatic lockers (including the Aussie and other "lunchbox" lockers) aren't great for towing where a trailer adds to the force needed to move the load but doesn't add much weight to the drive tires to help you move it. Keep in mind that automatic lockers give you one-wheel drive when you go around a corner (until you spin that one tire and the locker locks, giving you two wheel drive from that axle, but scrubbing tires because it's locked). As has already been said, a limited slip is the only way to help traction at all times without significantly hurting traction when turning. And a TrueTrac is undoubtedly the best limited slip as long as both tires have some traction (they don't work at all with one tire in the air, although adding a couple of clicks of e-brake can trick them into working in that situation).

That said, I'd agree that a lunchbox locker is the second-cheapest way to address the original problem of not being able to start up on a slightly slippery surface (locking the hubs is far and away the best cheap solution). A lunchbox locker (or a Detroit for more money) will give you the most help in that situation (better than a TrueTrac and far better than most clutch-type limited slips), but they will result in you spinning the inside tire on almost all powered turns, pavement or not.
 
  #40  
Old 03-01-2015, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ponykilr View Post
While I know it's a redneck way, if you do not have a dial indicator with a magnet or visegrip base, you can still get it right if just swapping carriers. (not swapping gears or pinion bearings) The rule of thumb for backlash is to feel it, but not see it. It sounds crazy I know but grab the ring gear once it's all tight and rock it up and down. If you can feel the backlash but not see it, it's good.

Now before I get flamed, I know how to set up gears, have done it many times but many of the techs I worked with tested this theory many times and verified it with a dial indicator. It is always around .005-.007.

Ford spec is looser than this, but most shops shoot for .004-.009 or so.
just noticed your updated signature, ironic 460, 4.10s 37s and a sig pic with the fuel nozzle shoved in the tank
 
  #41  
Old 03-01-2015, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nothing Special View Post
While I agree that automatic lockers are poor to terrible for towing (and an incredibly terrible idea for towing heavy trailers with zero tongue weight), they do NOT lock "under power". They lock when one tire loses traction. Whether you are coasting or driving they will stay unlocked when turning unless you spin the inside tire (the only one being driven when it's unlocked
Wrong

Detroit lockers are engaged when torque is applied to the differential ie hitting the gas

The only time they are unlocked is when you let off the gas pedal

The trutrac however will lock only when one tire starts spinning faster than the other the helical gears inside it slow down the faster spinning tire and apply torque to the slower or non spinning wheel

Clutch type ls only gives resistance to whichever tire is spinning to try and distribute torque to the other one imo not worth buying and wasting time putting them in
 
  #42  
Old 03-01-2015, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MI02SVT View Post
Wrong

Detroit lockers are engaged when torque is applied to the differential ie hitting the gas

The only time they are unlocked is when you let off the gas pedal
No, I'm right. Here's what the Eaton web site says about it(Detroit Locker is the link if you want to check it out):
Operation
During straight-line driving, the Detroit Locker captures 100% of available torque and sends it equally to both wheels. In turns and maneuvers, the internal components unlock to allow one wheel to spin faster or slower as necessary (free wheel). When the vehicle returns to a straight-line driving path, the components re-engage and provide power to both wheel ends.
No mention is made of "under power". They unlock "in turns and maneuvers" as I said.

Originally Posted by MI02SVT View Post
The trutrac however will lock only when one tire starts spinning faster than the other the helical gears inside it slow down the faster spinning tire and apply torque to the slower or non spinning wheel
Truetracs never lock. They do apply more torque to the slower or non-spinning tire as you say, but only up to some multiplier of the torque going to the spinning tire (I believe it's 3.5 times). That's why they don't work with a tire in the air (3.5 time zero is zero). But lightly applying the e.brake makes it take more torque to spin the tire that's in the air, so then you get 3.5 times a bigger number.

Originally Posted by MI02SVT View Post
Clutch type ls only gives resistance to whichever tire is spinning to try and distribute torque to the other one imo not worth buying and wasting time putting them in
As I said above, that resistance is between the two sides of the axle. And although others do swear that they're useful and I won't say they're wrong, personally I agree with you and would never even bother rebuilding the one I have much less put one in.
 
  #43  
Old 03-01-2015, 09:44 PM
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I don't have to check out the link I have a Detroit locker in one of my trucks yes it will unlock going around corners but you MUST let off the gas

You'll get one of two things with a Detroit locker when cornering either tires chirping or a ratcheting sound all depends on how you use the skinny pedal
 
  #44  
Old 03-01-2015, 10:01 PM
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This is from the trutrac manual I don't see anything about 3.5 times
 
  #45  
Old 03-01-2015, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MI02SVT View Post
I don't have to check out the link I have a Detroit locker in one of my trucks yes it will unlock going around corners but you MUST let off the gas

You'll get one of two things with a Detroit locker when cornering either tires chirping or a ratcheting sound all depends on how you use the skinny pedal
You're wrong though. If you get on the gas in a corner a Detroit is unlocked (because you are turning) so it only gives torque to the tire that's turning the slowest, which is the inside tire. Since that tire also tends to be unweighted by the inertia of the truck making it lean to the outside it's pretty easy to overpower the amount of traction that one tire has. In that case you will spin the inside tire and when it catches up to the outside tire the Detroit will lock and drive both tires. So if you get on it enough you will chirp it, but if you don't overpower the one wheel drive it will stay unlocked under power.
 

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