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2001 Expedition passenger side brake pad wear indicator position?

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2001 Expedition passenger side brake pad wear indicator position?

  #1  
Old 01-19-2015, 10:01 PM
BaitGuru
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2001 Expedition passenger side brake pad wear indicator position?

I apologize for the detail and for this question being so very long.

So to START this question (no real need to read further than this short question) Has anyone been able to install the Pad with the Wear indicator tab against the pistons for the passenger side (reported to be the correct location)?

This is driving me crazy, and I hate to re-post something already asked and answered, and I heave searched "Brake pad wear indicator position" on both this forum and google, and not found the answer. I have seen several posts on this forum, end with the question, and no response.

I have also seen several videos on Youtube (for which I also asked this question in the comment) where they placed the pad (passenger side) so that the pad with the wear indicator is on the outside (not against the duel pistons on the inside).

I am ready for a new truck (notice I didn't say get rid of this Truck, because I LOVE this truck.. it has been too good and reliable to me over the past 170,000 miles). I pulled into Autozone today, saw a burgandy Expy just like mine (except not 4x4) and the older gentleman walks over and asks me if I wanted to sell my Expedition, and I responded "Sorry No, but I'm still wanting an Excursion").

I have gone through 6 pairs of rotors on my 2001 Ford Expedition 4x4 with the 5.4L. Most of those happening within the past 6 years. One of those was due to me replacing the rear rotors, in November 2012, with a set of dimpled and slotted rotors, and I didn't like the performance, and had my garage replace them with Autozone rotors. So many people responded on this forum, that there must be something wrong with the installation, as those rotors are very good, so I have them sitting in my garage (rusting.. I don't think that will hurt them), and maybe I'll give them another try with different pads.

I don't want to spend any more money on this Expedition than is really needed. The seats are tearing at the seems. The high beams come on, every time the turn indicator clicks back into position, and 3 of the 4 Center caps are missing (I'm not spending $45+ for each center cap). However, it makes the 70 mile drive to and 70 mile back, to/from the lake, and tows my 4,000+lb boat. So I am very conscious about the brakes. My plan, if I hear even the slightest indication (which should be the pad's "Wear indicator" that the pads need replacing, then throw on a new set of pads (it is easy, and can be done during lunch). I even found out, that Autozone Duralast pads (supposed to be manufactured by Bosch - DG702).. have a life time warranty. How awesome is that.. free pads.

I never heard the screech indication of the pads wear indicator. On Thursday, I heard a sound like cement block, sliding over concrete/cement. At lunch I drove over to Autozone and purchased a new set of DG702 pads (it wasn't until this morning, that I found out that they have a lifetime warranty). The garage only warranties them for 2 years or 24,000 miles (which ever comes first) and this is typical. I am money saving mode, as our Oldest son is an Expensive Freshman at the University of Texas, Austin, and both my wife and I are Alum's from that red School a little further north that was ranked in the top 4 near the start of the season, and then can't score a point until late in the 4th Q, against clemson). Yeah, I'm displeased, will not watch another game for a long time, and my family lives in Norman.

It's been a while since I did brake work (except on my boat trailer with drum surge breaks), and I kept thinking there was a large allen bolt, and a pin/clip that I had to hammer/punch out, in order to get the caliper to come free. I then reviewed 4 or 5 Youtube video's (several times each), and recognized that it is much easier and quicker than that. Compress the pistons slightly with a screw driver, then two torex screws (purchased a T45 Torx socket) and the caliper slips up and off, and you can remove the pads out of the bracket. When you purchase pads you get both front left and right, and I was able to replace the pads during a dirty one hour lunch break. I replaced the drivers side first (good wear and still plenty of pad left 1/8th "(for comparison -3 DVDs stacked edge wise) for the outside, and a little less on the inside, and the rotors were as smooth as my finger nails on the outside and inside). I added brake pad silicon grease to the brake slide-clip, and inside the "c" on each end of the break pad (not on the padding). Cleaned up everything with Spray break cleaner.

Then moved over to the passenger side, and found that outside (away from the piston) rotor was smooth and there was still slightly less padding 1/8" of pad left on that outside pad. The inside pad, in one area (upper end) was ground down past the rivet (and into the rotor), with a smear of padding left further down (relatively even wear....all gone). There was indication of abrasion, 2" wide, inside of the rotor (towards the outer edge). I then re-examined the good outside pad, and noticed it was the pad with the wear indicator, and it hadn't even been touched.

I reviewed the youtube video, and noticed that someone had commented that they put the pads on incorrectly, because the brake job prior to them, also installed them incorrectly as the wear indicator is supposed to be on the inside with the pad against the piston. I later read that due to these being floating pads, and the caliper actually force from the piston being from the inside, that these inside pads will wear "slightly" more quickly, before inertia carries over to apply force on the outside pad up against the rotor. I decided I was going to have these rotors turned, and I didn't want the new pad applying pressure to this abrasion part of the rotor, so I grabbed the inside pad, which I had just removed from the driver side, and it contained the screeeech wear indicator (WIP), and placed it in the bracket for the inside of this rotor (any further damage would be to this old pad, which still had 'some' padding, and put the NEW pad (without the screech indicator) in the bracket for contacting the outside rotor.

I then attempted to put the caliper back onto, and over the pad bracket. Each of those Torx screws, has a rubber accordion bushing on both the inside and outside where the screw pushes through caliper, and screws into the brake mount. This appears to hold grease, MAYBE (don't know for certain) allow the caliper to slide, and eventually apply pressure to the outside pad to the rotor. This screech/wear indicator was "in the way of the" bushing, and prevented me from sliding the caliper over the pad bracket without damaging, or possibly tearing that rubber bushing. Upon further review, I found that screech wear indicator was 'Up" on this passenger inside-side, but on the driver's inside, that screech indicator was on the bottom, and didn't contact the bushing. That MIGHT explain why I am seeing it on video, and why my garage installed the pad with the WIP, outside the rotor on the passenger side. The pads will not installation another way. I had 10 minutes left for lunch, so i grabbed the used pad that was installed on the outside of the driver's side, slide it into the bracket, easily slide on the caliper, tightened that Torex bolt to attach the caliper, installed the tires, and had everything ready by time to return to my desk (I work from Home - Home office), while only being 2 minutes late (slight extended lunch, due to hand washing).

Due to dropping off my son at school (9:00am) and picking him up (late at 5:00pm), and my wife starting a new job (excellent salary and my new vehicle and possibly a new Boat is looking very promising - except child is still a freshman in college ) where she needs to be at the office early and stay very late (good impression), I could not drop off the Expy at the garage for immediate repair/work on a school day. I simply needed to make it to the weekend, without any further damage,

No school, no work, on MLK day, so I had planned to remove everything, have the rotors machined (walking over to local Driver's Edge car garage that is less than 1/4 mile from my house), and then re-installing. However, I needed an 18 mm box/open end wrench. I returned to Autozone, spoke to the same representative that had assisted me over the phone, on this job, and he told me that his experience as an auto tech, was that the pad was installed incorrectly, and the pad indicator is always on the inside on a 2 piston caliper, as the inside pad does wear slightly more than the outside pad. I informed him that I found the wear indicator gets in the way of the caliper bushing. He told me that I must have used the wrong pad, and that I needed to switch the pad with the wear indicators from the driver's side, with that on the passenger side. At the time I didn't know better, but thought that was possible, and an easy fix, but later found that those two pads are 'EXACTLY" the same.

I was feeling better about my progress, thinking it's just an installation issue. No big deal, switch the pads, and I'll just have those rotors machined, and all is good, but then decided, I'll just spend an addition $85 and purchase new rotors (slightly less quality -no the harder carbon) (so I don't have to walk to that Driver's edge car garage), but have those old rotors machined, and ready to use in the future (maybe I don't like these new rotors). Anyway, I'm saving money by doing all the work myself, might as well enjoy the braking power of new pads and rotors.

Returned home. Jacked up both left and front side, removed the caliper and then the bracket (with a lot of muscle and weight to remove those 18 mm bolts) on the drivers side. With a slight (not very forceful) hit with a regular hammer, that rotor came right off (I was surprised it was that easy, but then it was installed only 2 years ago). I pulled the New and unused pad with the Wear indicator, out of the box, and it was then that I noticed it was 'Exactly the same' as the wear indicator pad I had installed. Thinking I was sold 2 driver's side pads with the wear indicator, I called autozone to confirm, and open another box to see if this is something common. He found that those pads were identical in other boxes as well. He then did a google, and autozone search, and noticed somewhere that stated for the outside passenger side, those WIP needed to be installed on the outside,, and not up against the piston. That just seemed wrong, and made no sense. If the inside pads (up against the piston) wear faster than the outside pads, then that wear indicator should be on the pad that wears faster,and up against that piston.

I was then informed that they (Autozone) would warranty these pads (my garage uses Autozone after I told them I would no longer use them if they used Pep-boys (bad parts.. including an alternator was installed by my garage that were purchased from pep-boys, and my garage indicated that they no longer use pep-boys, and now use autozone as their primary parts supplier). I planned to returned the old pads DG702 to get $40 back, which would almost cover the cost to machine the old rotors (or so I thought).

I completed my installation and rotor replacement, very much like the last person, with the WIP installed on the outside for the passenger side, drove back to Autozone, collected my $40, and then I "DROVE" over to Driver's Edge (good opportunity for them to earn my loyalty, after the bad install by my other garage, and being walking distance from my house). However, they looked at the rotor with abrasion (from the passenger side), and indicated that they couldn't machine that rotor as it would be too thin. What?, these have only had a single set of pads on them, and were only 2 years old, and the first indication of trouble was less than 24 hours from when I replaced the pads. They brought out the measuring calipers, and confirmed they couldn't machine the abrasion rotor, but COULD machine the other (from the driver's side). What am I going to do with a single rotor?

I drove back to the garage where the installation (of the rotor and the pads) was originally done. I am a long term customer, and all my vehicles (2004 Expedition -wife, and 2009 Jeep Wrangler-son have the repair performed by them,including my oil (valvoline synthetic) changed every 4,000+ miles (270,000+ miles on this truck). I had discussions with them about the installation of this pad, and they indicated they couldn't install it incorrectly as the pads will only fit on the bracket a certain way, and that was with the screech (WIP) on the outside for the passenger side. He checked the rotors, and he also indicated that they could only machine one of that pair of rotors. I'm thinking that these rotors,, being only 2 years old, the 5th pair of rotors on this truck, 2nd pair up front (1st rotor lasted 12 years), were now only good for Trot line fishing weights. I was very unhappy, and Knew if that wear indicator was on the inside, this would have been prevented. It was less than a day after I started hearing the 'rubbing'/'griding' that I made the effort to replace the pads to prevent any damage to that rotor.

I then returned home, and called Bosch (Autozone stated that they do all the brakes for them under the Duralast name), and spoke to a representative 'dispatcher' that took my details and scheduled an expert "Mike" to call me back. While waiting for the call back, I called the local Ford dealer (they worked on my truck while it was under warranty, and then some..it's cheaper to have them replace those spark plugs and do a tune up) to ask them about those pads and the installation of the wear indicator. He had to check with his Service Tech, and then Mike from Bosch called me back. I had Bosch on my Cell phone, and Ford on my home line. Both checked, and confirmed that the wear indicator pad (WIP) is supposed to be up against the piston's. Bosch then indicated that Autozone uses another company, along with Bosch, to manufacture brake pads, and that Bosch pads are documented to be installed with the WIP on the inside against the piston.

Maybe Ford has the correct pads were it is possible to have the Wear indicator correctly positioned on the inside pads up against the pistons?
 
  #2  
Old 01-20-2015, 12:04 AM
alloro
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Originally Posted by BaitGuru View Post
Has anyone been able to install the Pad with the Wear indicator tab against the pistons for the passenger side (reported to be the correct location)?
Your information is incorrect, the pad with the wear indicator goes on the outside so that it can be better heard.
 
  #3  
Old 01-20-2015, 09:22 AM
BaitGuru
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Thank you for replying. I really appreciate the time and effort

Thank Alloro,
I can understand that logic. Does that work for you? Do you hear the screech when the pads are low and need to be changed?

I had found that on the driver's side, the Wear Indicator Pad (WIP) is on the inside (towards the center of the vehicle) and up against the piston. The autozone manager (and former auto tech) indicate that they should be up against the piston, and both Bosch and Ford also made statements to also confirm installation needs to be inside the and up against the piston.

Again thanks for the response. This morning, the first think I though of when woke up, dang I put to much use information in this question, much of it not 'Direct and to the point'. I was hoping to hear that there is some technique or tool to get that bushing out of the way, and not to worry about it cutting that bushing.

I am preparing to just change out the pads in 40,000 miles, and hope that will avoid damaging the rotors.

Thank you
 
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:18 AM
alloro
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Originally Posted by BaitGuru View Post
Do you hear the screech when the pads are low and need to be changed?
No, I never let my pads wear down to that point, I change them beforehand.
 
  #5  
Old 01-20-2015, 07:53 PM
pdqford
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Originally Posted by BaitGuru View Post
I then attempted to put the caliper back onto, and over the pad bracket. Each of those Torx screws, has a rubber accordion bushing on both the inside and outside where the screw pushes through caliper, and screws into the brake mount. This appears to hold grease, MAYBE (don't know for certain) allow the caliper to slide, and eventually apply pressure to the outside pad to the rotor.

I suspect those rubber accordion bushings are a major part of your issue with the inner pad wearing down quicker that the outer pad,


They should never be filled with GREASE. The petroleum based grease will cause the rubber to swell and either prevent the caliper from sliding or make it slide very sluggish, allowing the inner pad to do more of the braking.


There is only one accordion bushing on each Torx screw. The bushing goes all the way through the ear of the caliper. I take the bushing out of the ear and wash it thourghly in detergent to remove all trace of any petroleum that may have been used. Then use a rat tail file to remove all built up rust in the hole where the bushing goes, reinstall the bushing and pack it with Silicone lubricant (from Motorcraft) which will not attack the rubber and make it swell.
.
And if you are towing and looking for that last little bit of braking power, specify the HD (Heavy Duty) pad for your front brakes. They stand up to the heat.


Finally, bed those new pads in.
.
 
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