My Truck's A/C, Ford Dealers and Ford's Customer Service
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09-27-2014, 06:42 PM
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My Truck's A/C, Ford Dealers and Ford's Customer Service
After writing to the president of Ford Canada about my A/C, I was thrown back to Ford's customer service.
In regard to my A/C issue, Rachael in Ford's customer service first offered me a certificate for a free service at a Ford dealership. She knew that I did not get my services done be a Ford dealer. Lastly she offered a $50.00 certificate that could only be used at a Ford dealer. Even at that, she gave me a deadline by which I must accept or reject that certificate ("Please advise by September 26, 2014 if you accept or refuse my offer as this offer’s expiry is the close of business September 26, 2014."). I've been dealing with this issue for more than a year and she wanted a response from me in four business days. I did not accept the $50.00. Where would I spend it?
Rachael also upholds all the findings of the three dealers involved. That is so even though she knows the findings of a private A/C shop.
Dealership's Findings
Dealer one checked the system and found no faults. The word freon was twice mentioned in the paperwork that Rachael actually obtained for me (I thank her for that), but there is no indication that any was added. Rachael said that dye had been added then, but nowhere is that indicated in the paperwork. She was to check on that, but has not got an answer. She also knows that my truck's A/C was still useless on the way back home that day. They only checked the pressures and levels in their shaded shop. After an extremely short road test with no thermometer, my A/C was deemed to be working fine. Rachael upholds that dealer decision.
In April of 2014, my favourite tech at dealer two (my selling dealer) added dye and a "CYN 16 R :REFRIGERANT - R-134A". I have to estimate 12 or 13 ounces for that and will use 12 for my purposes. He obviously also found the system pressure/refrigerant to be low. Seeing no leaks have been found, that would indicate that the pressures and the refrigerant must have been low when dealer one checked my truck's A/C system. So, at that time, using 12 ounces, my system was showing 50% low on refrigerant. That would be assuming that the system had not been overcharged at that point. The tech and I discussed that the weather was not conducive to testing the system further at that time (truck was mainly in for other reasons) and I would get back to him when warm weather arrived. He was later injured at work and not available to me after that. I'll even uphold that decision by him.
Dealer two, when warm weather arrived was supposed to check the truck's A/C as part of another visit to their shop. Because he was short handed, the service manager kept me waiting for at least 40 minutes for my first thing in the morning appointment. When I questioned why my truck had not come in, the service manager and one of the service writers looked at my truck, outside. The service manager checked my truck's A/C system for leaks outside (none found), but did not check for pressures or levels. His road test, with no thermometer in hand, was from the back of the building to the front of the building. In other words, he just cleared me off of his slate. Rachael upholds that dealer decision too.
Then I had another other BS check of the system at dealer two where, in about five minutes, everything was said to be working fine and I was expecting too much from my truck's AC. No other effort was made to solve the issue. By the time that I walked from the front of the building to the back, about five minutes, the hoses were coming off and that was it for the check of my trucks A/C except for the road test. When the other work was done on my truck, the tech took the truck for its road test. By the time that I walked the five minutes to the front of the building again, the road test was over. Without the use of a thermometer, driver's window down, my A/C was said to be working fine. Rachael upholds that dealer decision too.
At that point, through Ford's call centre personnel, my truck went to dealer three. They too said there were no leaks and everything was working fine. The system was not evacuated and recharged as expected and as I was led to believe would happen by my Ford CSM. I had waited for a hot day before booking the truck in, but the work was done well before noon and before we reached the heat of the day. After they cooled the truck down by running it in the shaded shop for 30 minutes and then road testing it for 30 minutes, it was said to be working fine. No other effort was made to solve the issue. As the day warmed up, I had to turn off the A/C and drop the windows on my way home. Rachael upholds that dealer decision too.
Private Shop Findings (I was running out of hot days and had to try something)
Rachael has not even bothered to ask me what that visit cost.
My truck was taken to a private shop to be checked for leaks, to evacuate the freon and to recharge the system to the 24 ounce required level.
The truck is supposed to have 1.50 pounds of refrigerant. It had a total of 1.08 pounds (nearing 1/3 low). It also had a suspicious steel line that could be leaking at a bend. The truck has since been rechecked and no leaks were found. If no leaks, it must have been low on freon when checked by dealers two and three.
If you add the 12 ounces of refrigerant that was added by dealer two to what the truck was short when it was evacuated and recharged, it was down/low 1.17 lbs. of its 1.5 lbs. of refrigerant (more than 2/3 of its capacity low). I watched the entire procedure.
A total of five visits to three different dealers could not solve this issue and an independent shop located the issue in less than an hour by doing exactly what I had been asking. Even without adding the extra 12 ounces of refrigerant, the issue, if taken seriously by the techs and service managers, should have been a fast/obvious fix. To that, Rachel's response is "Given the fact that 3 Ford dealers stated that the air conditioning is within normal specification, I uphold their decision.".
I have done about ten hours of driving to have my truck's A/C checked by Ford dealers, I've given up our vacation plans because of truck warranty issues, I've put wear and tear on my truck and used fuel.
My intention was not to shoot for the moon. I wanted a fair settlement for some of my out of pocket expenses. Because of the involvement of Ford's customer service people, I am alienated at my three closest Ford dealers.
Believe me or not.
Green Gem
In regard to my A/C issue, Rachael in Ford's customer service first offered me a certificate for a free service at a Ford dealership. She knew that I did not get my services done be a Ford dealer. Lastly she offered a $50.00 certificate that could only be used at a Ford dealer. Even at that, she gave me a deadline by which I must accept or reject that certificate ("Please advise by September 26, 2014 if you accept or refuse my offer as this offer’s expiry is the close of business September 26, 2014."). I've been dealing with this issue for more than a year and she wanted a response from me in four business days. I did not accept the $50.00. Where would I spend it?
Rachael also upholds all the findings of the three dealers involved. That is so even though she knows the findings of a private A/C shop.
Dealership's Findings
Dealer one checked the system and found no faults. The word freon was twice mentioned in the paperwork that Rachael actually obtained for me (I thank her for that), but there is no indication that any was added. Rachael said that dye had been added then, but nowhere is that indicated in the paperwork. She was to check on that, but has not got an answer. She also knows that my truck's A/C was still useless on the way back home that day. They only checked the pressures and levels in their shaded shop. After an extremely short road test with no thermometer, my A/C was deemed to be working fine. Rachael upholds that dealer decision.
In April of 2014, my favourite tech at dealer two (my selling dealer) added dye and a "CYN 16 R :REFRIGERANT - R-134A". I have to estimate 12 or 13 ounces for that and will use 12 for my purposes. He obviously also found the system pressure/refrigerant to be low. Seeing no leaks have been found, that would indicate that the pressures and the refrigerant must have been low when dealer one checked my truck's A/C system. So, at that time, using 12 ounces, my system was showing 50% low on refrigerant. That would be assuming that the system had not been overcharged at that point. The tech and I discussed that the weather was not conducive to testing the system further at that time (truck was mainly in for other reasons) and I would get back to him when warm weather arrived. He was later injured at work and not available to me after that. I'll even uphold that decision by him.
Dealer two, when warm weather arrived was supposed to check the truck's A/C as part of another visit to their shop. Because he was short handed, the service manager kept me waiting for at least 40 minutes for my first thing in the morning appointment. When I questioned why my truck had not come in, the service manager and one of the service writers looked at my truck, outside. The service manager checked my truck's A/C system for leaks outside (none found), but did not check for pressures or levels. His road test, with no thermometer in hand, was from the back of the building to the front of the building. In other words, he just cleared me off of his slate. Rachael upholds that dealer decision too.
Then I had another other BS check of the system at dealer two where, in about five minutes, everything was said to be working fine and I was expecting too much from my truck's AC. No other effort was made to solve the issue. By the time that I walked from the front of the building to the back, about five minutes, the hoses were coming off and that was it for the check of my trucks A/C except for the road test. When the other work was done on my truck, the tech took the truck for its road test. By the time that I walked the five minutes to the front of the building again, the road test was over. Without the use of a thermometer, driver's window down, my A/C was said to be working fine. Rachael upholds that dealer decision too.
At that point, through Ford's call centre personnel, my truck went to dealer three. They too said there were no leaks and everything was working fine. The system was not evacuated and recharged as expected and as I was led to believe would happen by my Ford CSM. I had waited for a hot day before booking the truck in, but the work was done well before noon and before we reached the heat of the day. After they cooled the truck down by running it in the shaded shop for 30 minutes and then road testing it for 30 minutes, it was said to be working fine. No other effort was made to solve the issue. As the day warmed up, I had to turn off the A/C and drop the windows on my way home. Rachael upholds that dealer decision too.
Private Shop Findings (I was running out of hot days and had to try something)
Rachael has not even bothered to ask me what that visit cost.
My truck was taken to a private shop to be checked for leaks, to evacuate the freon and to recharge the system to the 24 ounce required level.
The truck is supposed to have 1.50 pounds of refrigerant. It had a total of 1.08 pounds (nearing 1/3 low). It also had a suspicious steel line that could be leaking at a bend. The truck has since been rechecked and no leaks were found. If no leaks, it must have been low on freon when checked by dealers two and three.
If you add the 12 ounces of refrigerant that was added by dealer two to what the truck was short when it was evacuated and recharged, it was down/low 1.17 lbs. of its 1.5 lbs. of refrigerant (more than 2/3 of its capacity low). I watched the entire procedure.
A total of five visits to three different dealers could not solve this issue and an independent shop located the issue in less than an hour by doing exactly what I had been asking. Even without adding the extra 12 ounces of refrigerant, the issue, if taken seriously by the techs and service managers, should have been a fast/obvious fix. To that, Rachel's response is "Given the fact that 3 Ford dealers stated that the air conditioning is within normal specification, I uphold their decision.".
I have done about ten hours of driving to have my truck's A/C checked by Ford dealers, I've given up our vacation plans because of truck warranty issues, I've put wear and tear on my truck and used fuel.
My intention was not to shoot for the moon. I wanted a fair settlement for some of my out of pocket expenses. Because of the involvement of Ford's customer service people, I am alienated at my three closest Ford dealers.
Believe me or not.
Green Gem
#2
10-04-2014, 09:02 PM
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As a follow-up to this post, I offer the following.
Yesterday, to try to determine if my truck has a refrigerant leak, or not, I had the same private shop use the same machine to evacuate and recharge my truck's A/C again.
They had previously added the required 1.5 pounds (24 oz.) of refrigerant following the evacuation. When they evacuated the system yesterday, they vaccumed out exactly 1.5 pounds (24 oz.) of refrigerant. It was all there.
As a result, we have determined that my truck does not have a refrigerant leak.
Now, one would have to assume that my truck was under charged at the factory or the Ford techs somehow lost a great deal of freon during their testing procedures.
It also means that dealer one failed to determine the undercharge. On my first visit to dealer two, freon was added, but it was obviously not enough. On two more visits to dealer two, my concerns were not taken seriously and no attemp was made to find this problem. Dealer three also said that all was good and they were not able to find the undercharge. Ford's customer service greatly complicated the issue.
For those that said to take the truck to a private A/C shop and bill Ford later, good luck with that. I've had no luck so far.
So, my advice to those with A/C problems is to bypass Ford and go to a private shop. At least you will be starting with a clean slate and know that your truck has a full freon charge. You can then go on from there.
Is mine working properly now? It is too cool outside to know for sure. I'll see what happens next summer.
Take Care
Green Gem
Yesterday, to try to determine if my truck has a refrigerant leak, or not, I had the same private shop use the same machine to evacuate and recharge my truck's A/C again.
They had previously added the required 1.5 pounds (24 oz.) of refrigerant following the evacuation. When they evacuated the system yesterday, they vaccumed out exactly 1.5 pounds (24 oz.) of refrigerant. It was all there.
As a result, we have determined that my truck does not have a refrigerant leak.
Now, one would have to assume that my truck was under charged at the factory or the Ford techs somehow lost a great deal of freon during their testing procedures.
It also means that dealer one failed to determine the undercharge. On my first visit to dealer two, freon was added, but it was obviously not enough. On two more visits to dealer two, my concerns were not taken seriously and no attemp was made to find this problem. Dealer three also said that all was good and they were not able to find the undercharge. Ford's customer service greatly complicated the issue.
For those that said to take the truck to a private A/C shop and bill Ford later, good luck with that. I've had no luck so far.
So, my advice to those with A/C problems is to bypass Ford and go to a private shop. At least you will be starting with a clean slate and know that your truck has a full freon charge. You can then go on from there.
Is mine working properly now? It is too cool outside to know for sure. I'll see what happens next summer.
Take Care
Green Gem
#3
10-05-2014, 12:56 AM
It seems a shame to get such a hard time trying to get such a simple repair done at the dealer, I will agree with the mechanic that said he needs a hot day to properly analyze the system to a degree, with the machinery used for recovery and recharge the system, the tech could have done this work in an hour or so, outside of determining where a small leak is(can often be difficult) it dosent take that much to pull the refrigerant out and put a measured amount back in and see where that leads to on a warm day.
#4
10-05-2014, 04:56 AM
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It seems a shame to get such a hard time trying to get such a simple repair done at the dealer, I will agree with the mechanic that said he needs a hot day to properly analyze the system to a degree, with the machinery used for recovery and recharge the system, the tech could have done this work in an hour or so, outside of determining where a small leak is(can often be difficult) it dosent take that much to pull the refrigerant out and put a measured amount back in and see where that leads to on a warm day.
I can't agree more. To me, I think that proving that the vehicle has a full freon charge should be the very first step. Obviously these three dealers cannot tell by reading their gauges. The problem could stem from the fact that Ford only pays 0.6 hours to evaluate these systems. If the tech takes longer, he loses money.
Take Care
Green Gem
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10-05-2014, 09:01 AM
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#7
10-07-2014, 09:10 PM
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#8
10-08-2014, 05:53 AM
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Having a good dealer is important and having a good service writer is more important. I can visit my local Ford dealer and have a good experience or a mediocre depending on the service writer. It seems some service writers just process requests and others get the job done.
I agree. In this case, I think the service writer and the tech were both problems at dealer one (large egos and little skill). The service writer at dealer two has a huge ego as well and records very little. He even missed some of the items to be repaired completely (even though they were listed in my e-mails for him). That said, on my first visit, I requested that a specific tech who I knew from another dealer work on my truck. That was going well until he was injured at work and no longer available to me. When the now short staffed service manager, and Ford's so called customer service, got involved no real attempts were made to repair my A/C.
At dealer three, I only dealt with the service manager, the tech doing the work and my Ford CSM. That visit was booked after to setting it up for an ideal hot day. The truck was brought in long before the heat of the day and I was on my way. To be honest, I once worked with the service manager at that dealer when he was a service writer. He is not a tech and I got about what I expected.
What I would like others to see is that when they get involved with Ford's customer service, they are dealing with people who have little to no technical background. They just start a file on your vehicle, collect some information like VIN number and mileage. If your problem does not get solved, they tell you to take the truck to another dealer. They can't even tell you which dealers in your area have a good reputation. After a few more failures to fix, they tell you that there is nothing more they can do and they close your file.
Ford's customer service only complicates issues and pisses off the dealers. They cannot even pass you onto someone at Ford that can help. We live in a call centre world, the workers have a list of responses and they talk nice and hope that we go away.
Writing to the president of Ford Canada only got me thrown back into customer service loop again, more lies, and an attempt to buy me off with a $50.00 certificate. So far, my second letter to the president of Ford Canada has been unanswered. What Ford does not grasp is that people just want their vehicles repaired.
I hope that you keep finding a good service writer and have great repair services at your dealer of choice.
Have a great day.
Green Gem
#9
10-16-2014, 06:40 AM
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#10
10-16-2014, 11:43 PM
The problem with such low vent temps is that the coil has to be way below freezing which will cause the evap coil to ice up, blocking flow of air to the vents, probably the thermostat or pressure sensor prevents coil temps from going too low, thus the vent temps you see are maximum low that you should see. coil temps should be 8-10 degrees below actual air temp. Your compressor cycles on a thermostat and or a pressure switch.
#11
10-17-2014, 07:38 AM
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The problem with such low vent temps is that the coil has to be way below freezing which will cause the evap coil to ice up, blocking flow of air to the vents, probably the thermostat or pressure sensor prevents coil temps from going too low, thus the vent temps you see are maximum low that you should see. coil temps should be 8-10 degrees below actual air temp. Your compressor cycles on a thermostat and or a pressure switch.
At that ambient temperature, that is a horrible vent temperature. The vent/evaporator temperatures should easily go down to 36 F to 38 F without causing any issues except to be performing correctly. Nothing will ice up until the temperature goes down to, or below, freezing.
Many, maybe most, of these trucks can can put out vent temperatures in the 37 F to 38 F range at ambient temperatures in the high 90 F range with high humidity. If they won't, there is something wrong with them.
I appears that Ford has started to authorized repairs on some of these ill performing trucks and I not giving up on mine. Two summers of baking my butt off is enough.
Take Care
Green Gem
#12
10-17-2014, 07:56 AM
I've seen a post somewhere that said the heater core is in the AC airstream, and that Ecoboost does not use a coolant shutoff valve to the heater core. That could result in a large temp rise. Somebody put in a shutoff valve and got froze out on the next drive.
My AC is the worst performing of ANY vehicle I've ever owned. It woks, but not well. But hey, it compensates by blowing snow on me in the winter. Worst HVAC I've ever experienced.
#13
10-18-2014, 08:18 AM
#14
10-18-2014, 10:31 AM
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I've seen a post somewhere that said the heater core is in the AC airstream, and that Ecoboost does not use a coolant shutoff valve to the heater core. That could result in a large temp rise. Somebody put in a shutoff valve and got froze out on the next drive.
My AC is the worst performing of ANY vehicle I've ever owned. It woks, but not well. But hey, it compensates by blowing snow on me in the winter. Worst HVAC I've ever experienced.
My AC is the worst performing of ANY vehicle I've ever owned. It woks, but not well. But hey, it compensates by blowing snow on me in the winter. Worst HVAC I've ever experienced.
It makes you wonder if something got missed with the heater/evaporator unit when it was being assembled. When I read posts about people having heater and A/C problems it seems when they go wrong, they go really wrong.
Also there are literally thousands of Ford owners with both the lousy A/C and the blowing snow in the cab thing. I live in Alberta where it gets hot in the summer and it get OH so cold in the winter. If my truck was doing this I think I would be trading it off
#15
10-22-2014, 01:03 PM
The AC works fine in my truck, but I've got other issues.
It makes you wonder if something got missed with the heater/evaporator unit when it was being assembled. When I read posts about people having heater and A/C problems it seems when they go wrong, they go really wrong.
Also there are literally thousands of Ford owners with both the lousy A/C and the blowing snow in the cab thing. I live in Alberta where it gets hot in the summer and it get OH so cold in the winter. If my truck was doing this I think I would be trading it off
It makes you wonder if something got missed with the heater/evaporator unit when it was being assembled. When I read posts about people having heater and A/C problems it seems when they go wrong, they go really wrong.
Also there are literally thousands of Ford owners with both the lousy A/C and the blowing snow in the cab thing. I live in Alberta where it gets hot in the summer and it get OH so cold in the winter. If my truck was doing this I think I would be trading it off
I'm Nikki, the Ford Canada customer service rep here.
You say have other concerns..what are they? Send them over, along with the current odometer reading; I'll see how I can assist.Nikki
Ford Service CA