Hi Fellas,

Am new to this forum, so just want to say hi

Currently in the market for a used F250 4x4 XLT RN Extra Cab somewhere between 2002-2005 depending on price. The question I have is with respect to the GVM of the F250 and the payload I can carry.

I intend to have a slide on Camper, and the one I am looking at has a weight of 1650kg. I have looked and researched for the AUS specs of a F250, and I seem to have found a common figure of around 1000kg payload capacity, although there is conflicting info
Is it possible to upgrade the GVM of the 250 to the specs of the 350 SRW (seems to be spring pack, tyre rating, blocks etc)?

I have almost lashed out on a F250, but I am now seeing problems with the payload. Just as an info, the towing capacity is not of real concern, as dont having any real towing needs.

Thanks for any advice/tips/suggestions

Tassiedude

 

Hi Tassie dude & welcome.

There are a few of you F-truck enthusiasts in the island state!

Attached is a scan of my F250 owners manual, page 180 and 181.

The Maximum Gross Rear Axle Mass is 2760kgs for the F250 and 338kgs more for the F350.

If the slide on is really that heavy you might be better looking for a dually. I know Rocket in Victoria sells a dually conversion, but with their prices, it may be cheaper to import the parts from the USA yourself (like the other Tassie guy did)!

 

Thanks for that Simon, I am slowly coming to that conclusion as well. It seems that this topic has been beaten to death on a number of forums.

Nevertheless, I see that someone here (Diesel Submariner?) has upgraded his GVM to 5000kg, and this must change the axle capacity. If I have to go the Light Rigid route, it doesnt worry me since I have a MC anyway, and no missus to annoy me

Any tips on who can do such an GVM upgrade on a F250 in VIC or WA?

 

If your slide on is as big as this it looks like an F350 dually would be in order:
1988 FORD F350 CREW CAB LWB 4X2 Ute Private Cars For Sale in WA - carsales.com.au

 

The ratings for the single rear wheel trucks are pretty low as you have noticed.

This is primarly due to the fact that the way we rate commercial vehicles is a bit different to the US. The majority of US vehicles are given a comfort rating (i.e. vehicle can carry this amount of weight before the vehicle sags below a certain level), Aus vehicles are typically rated based on reliability (i.e. put more than X weight, expect stuff to start breaking).
i.e. the trucks are "under rated" - that said, try arguing that with your local transport authority, and let me know how you go

A certified engineer can increase the GVM, they may ask you to change springs or a couple of other things. I know that on AuLRO, there are a couple of engineers they use in Victoria for work that would be more familiar with 4x4's and our type of vehicles - most engineers are far more familiar with "street machine" work, and won't touch an effie.

FWIW, the only difference between a 350 and a 250 is a 4" block on the rear springs, instead of a 2" block.
Another thing worth knowing, if you are looking at a camper - make sure you take into account the wet weight, with all the water tanks/lpg etc. and all your gear on it too, if it is 1650kg dry, expect the fully loaded weight to be ~2500kg, and that's before you have put your bum in the drivers seat.

You can save a quick 250kg off your vehicle, by taking the standard styleside bed off of the vehicle - a light aluminium flat tray should weigh no more than ~100kg, so that gives you an extra 150kg to play with.


The good thing however, is that the Duallies sold here are the Cab Chassis units - and have the narrow frame, this means that they aren't much wider than the normal single rear wheel units (i.e. they aren't the typical American dually pickups, that stick out massively at the back, and are a pain to park/drive anywhere), for your purposes this would be ideal, as you won't find a light rigid cab over that is as comfortable, or as powerful/capable as one of these.
FYI, the 4x4 duallies only came with extra cabs I believe.

 

BigF350,

Thanks for the info, and the tips.

I am a difficult person to please (just ask my ex missus ) and have been referred to as a pedantic ***** as well. Must be the engineer coming out in me however I digress...

The few dually's here (that I have seen on the interwebs) are 'only' an XL version, and thus miss out on a few goodies like dual airbags, cruise control, and absolute necessities such as electric windows, armrests and a radio

The other thing that irritates me, is that the XLT appears to only have been Auto, no manual version. Now, being the aforementioned difficult to please type, I would be a happy owner of a XTL manual version of a F350 dually...but sadly, such an animal doesn't seem to exist.

SO, the only way to solve my dilemma, is to acquire a XLT F250, and convert to a dually, and change over the transmission. The auto to manual conversion seems to be relatively straightforward (if the forums here and elsewhere are anything to go by), and the SRW to DRW conversion also appears to be relatively simple, if just using a system such as Arrowcraft.

Am I missing something? (apart from the $ needed to get all this crap done)

 

You are right that all the 4x4 Duallies are XL. They only brought in one 4x4 F350 Dually, and it was the supercab XL with manual trans.

I personally would still buy one of those, as that way you get the compliance plate with a higher GVM and axle ratings, instead of doing the duallie (and manual trans) conversion and having to get engineers approval. I haven't been through this process myself, but those that I know who have still complain about it.
Then find a crashed XLT (or Lariat) in the US, and have the interior sent across (or just buy the bits you want off eBay). All the modules on these are plug and play, and they are before the complicated world of Can-Bus. This will also allow you to pick and choose the electronics, as to be honest a lot of the standard stuff on the XLT you won't want anyway (the "nicer stereo" for example will be a lot worse than a $100 unit from JB Hifi).

The only difficulty you might have would be airbags, but I am 99% certain they were fitted to XL's anyway.

 

Hi there Tassiedude

I thought I would add my 2cents worth.

I have an 04 F250 XLT dual cab. The first owner removed the style side and made a very heavy solid steel tray for it.
The weight of the empty vehicle with fuel tank full and me sitting in the drivers seat is approx 3700kg. My GVM is 4217 kgs (actual front axle weight is 2100, rear axle is 1600), so this only gives me a payload of approx 500 kgs.

Yes the rear axle rating is 2760 kgs, but you can never use this rating because you will reach your GVM way before the rear axle reaches it limit.
IMHO, the rear axle rating is only used when towing a gooseneck/5th wheeler trailer as you can put approx 1000 kgs on the ball. Your vehicle GVM is not used then, the Transport guys use the Combined GVM which from memory is approx 9000 kgs.
I approached a vehicle engineer in Brisbane, I explained my situation and showed him some figures. He said he would increase my GVM to 4495 kgs if I added some airbags to the rear springs. I could possibly go higher, but I would prefer not to as once I pass 4500 kg GVM, then my rego almost doubles in price.

So at the moment, I am getting a new alloy tray made, which will hopefully cut my weight down abit and with the higher GVM, I might just get a 1000 kg payload rather than the 500 kg I currently have.

On a separate note, I bought mine as an auto as Ford only imported auto dual cabs. I then converted it to a manual ZF6 box and also a manual transfer case. This has improved the driveability of my F250 ten fold as I prefer manuals.

I hope this helps.

 

Cant really add to much here other than.
Speak to Jason (Kramer73) regarding the manual conversion
Geoff (Ratkat) regarding 350 duallie conversion
and Reg (DieselSubmariner) regarding GVM's
Im sure all would be willing to pass on there knowledge.

 

Ok Guys, so I may have an answer

I am wanting to increase my GVM from 4219 up to 4495kg as my vehicle is very heavy with the steel tray that is on it.

So my current specs are
GVM 4219
Max rear axle load 2760
GCM 9071

I spoke with an engineer from North Qld who was very knowledgeable on the F250. He said that he should be able to up my GVM to 4491 easily, and maybe to 5000 if I wanted to. Going to 5000 would increase my rego quite significantly.
Also he should be able to increase my max rear axle load from 2760 up to 3098, which is basically the maximum of my rear tyres.
If I increase my GVM to 5000, then the GCM would also get increased.

All I have to do is get new heavier rear springs. My original rear springs have 4 springs with the heavy thick one at the bottom, so 5 in total. The new springs I have bought have 6 plus the thick one at the bottom, so 7 in total. I have to measure the thickness of each spring and send him some photos.

So stay tuned. This process will probably take a few weeks, but I will report back when finished.
I won't mention the engineers name just yet, until everything is passed and I have my mod plate.

 

I'll give it my 2 shillings worth -

About ten years ago I got a used F250 in California that had a single wheel axle under a home-made flatbed. Keeping it short - I went out to a scrapyard and got me a Dually axle from a same or close to it year truck (mid eighties) out of an F350 and bolted it up.

Springs, sway bars, and the like can be rounded up most anywhere to increase the carrying capacity - you might even look into custom leaf spring fabricators. While I was still working on RV's we often had to replace totally rusted out springs from an outfit like that - and the price is not all that high. You may find that the aftermarket is favorable in this venue....
To go heavier is not at all unusual


Just a notion from my own wrench bending experiences

I see no reason why the frame cannot handle it, it's the suspension that is an issue in load carrying, and that is to a great extent modifiable indeed

Cheers from 'over here' M8


"If you can imagine it, you can do it"

 

Hi there Greywolf
Yes I agree, but over here it Oz, the hardest part is not getting the heavier springs, but finding a engineer who sees things the same way as you do.
Because your compliance plate still states the previous GVM, and not what you should be able to carry.

 

I had heard something about that - something like the pollution control "Referee's" that I once had to deal with out west. I'm fortunate in that way - in Tennessee they really don't care all that much because there are a lot of farms with the most ridiculous contraptions I've ever seen on the highway!

Believe it or not - if I want to I can run OPEN HEADERS and no one will jack me up about it, nor can they interfere with me if I drive such a thing in some other state. Legal is legal...

 

Now that is very interesting. Open headers would be very loud.

All the Dept of Transports from all states are now getting together to make it harder for us motorists to modify our cars.
Example - As of 1st May, any car that has a new 6 point roll cage in it will not be able to get a mod plate for it. The Dept of Transports have all stated that only a 4 point cage is legal to drive on the road.
Luckily I got my 6 point cage passed before this stupid law came in.
The catch is, that any decently quick car down the drag strip needs a 6 point cage because of the speed that they are going (Australian National Drag Racing Association, ANDRA)

So basically, any decent car needs a 6 point cage to drag race, but now won't be able to be registered for road use.

I should move to Tennessee!!

 

Sounds like some government employee has found a way to keep themselves in a job.


Living both in Aus and the US, what you can get away with, with a vehicle in the states is astounding in comparison to Aus.