For a while I used M1 5W30, when the 0W30 Advanced Fuel Economy became available I started using it. Today out of curiosity I went to the website to find some more information and am confused about something I found.

Looking at the tech details I found this.

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<table width="334"><tbody><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">SAE Grade</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">5W-30</td></tr><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445)</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign=""> </td></tr><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign=""> @ 100ºC</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">11.0</td></tr><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign=""> @ 40ºC</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">61.7</td></tr></tbody></table>

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<table style="width: 350px;"><tbody><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">SAE Grade</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">0W30</td></tr><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445)</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">10.9</td></tr><tr xmlns=""><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445)</td><td align="" class="bodyText" valign="">62.9</td></tr></tbody></table>

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Wouldn't this indicate that the 0W30 is "thicker" at 40C then the 5W30? How can this be?

 

Looks like the viscosity improvers give a wider range. 40 degrees C is like 104 degrees F which is NOT something that your engine is gonna see while it is running except on a cold startup.

George

 

Uhm yeah, that's the whole point of multi viscosity oil!?!?!

 

The W viscosity is measured at 0 degrees F which is like -17.7 C. There is also pour point (which is the lowest temp at which the oil will pour). Read some more numbers on the Mobil site.

40 degrees C is not a winter temp--it is one point on a scale.

Peace out,
George

 

Where did you find that W=0F? I've never read that standard nor do I think it's correct.

I've read all the numbers on the mobil site, the poor point only tells so much, the 0W30 is -50 and 5W30 -42, I see very little info though that would indicate viscosity at 0C nor a way to find it.

 

It is a number I remember from the past. It will take me just as long to find it on the Internet as it will take you, so since it's your question, I'll let you pursue the answer.

Pour point tells me that the 0W is way thinner at real winter temps because it will pour when the 5W is jelly.

Good luck,
George

 

As is my nature, I did do a search anyway. The W weights have to do with cranking viscosities on 2 different scales at -25C and -30C:

Understanding Multi-Viscosity Motor Oils

So +40C is completely irrelevant to viscosity determination and is one point on the scale. How much time does an engine spend with the oil at +40C? A minute or so while it's warming up?

George

 

Guess I made the crazy assumption that viscosity vs. temperature would be linear.

 

I used the M1 0w-30 this past winter to try. The truck sits outside and it was a colder than normal winter. (OMG the polar vortex, cold air never came down from Canada before) I normally run a 5w-30 synthetic like M1, M1 Ext Perf, Penz Plat and etc. It got down to a click or 2 below zero a couple nights and the truck did fire up easier when it is cold with 0w-30. Startup oil pressure was also less with the 0w than the 5w on my oil pressure gauge. So it looks like there is some difference. I'll probably put some type of 0W-30 synth in again this winter.

Honestly it would be nice if they would show viscosity @ 0 C and -30 C.

 

I agree...even though I said I wasn't gonna research this, it looks as though the +40C viscosity rating is based either on typical oil storage temperatures (as in a huge outside tank in the sun) OR, another plausible explanation that I ran across is that this is the operating temperature of factory floor machines that don't involve internal combustion engines. The 100C is a useful gas engine operating temperature rating.

I think that the most useful number to compare oils in colt temps is the "pour point" number; an oil that pours at a much lower temp below zero is gonna have to be thinner at 0C or -30C. Even though viscosity curves are not linear, an oil rated at 0W has to be thinner at these low temperatures than a 5W.

Ultimately, if you live in a truly cold climate, a block heater would be the way to go...or one of those heaters that splices into a radiator hose or something.

I've never had a cold weather starting issue in Michigan using Motorcraft 5W20 syn blend, and I've owned my '02 E150 (4.6) since new. I ran full syn 5W20 for a couple years (got 24 quarts of Quaker State Torquepower 5W20 for 99 cents a quart) and really did not note a difference.

I've spent some time on the BITOG pages and could become a motor oil collector/hobbyist, but ultimately the payoff really isn't worth the time and worry. My van will rust away before the engine ever has an oil related issue. I like 5W20 Motorcraft syn blend.

George

 

I'm not really concerned about very low temp starting at all, only startup wear. It doesn't get cold enough here to worry about, mid 20sF for a few days a year as about it. I just figured with a quality brand like M1 if 5W30 was good then 0W30 for the same money would be better.

 

Based on your original numbers, the 0W30 would be expected to flow better at startup because of the lower pour point but be just about the same as 5W30 at 100C. The only difference might be shearing over time--would the 100C viscosity be the same after 5000 or 7500 miles? If your oil consumption is not any greater with the 0W, I'd say it would be fine--but doing used oil analysis would tell you more.

There are so many mod motors that have gone 250k and 500k miles using plain old Motorcraft 5W30 and 5W20 that I think long term wear due to cold startups is not that big an issue. What engine do you have in your truck, how many miles on it, and what is your oil consumption like?

I've had some personal experiences with Mobil 1 in a Subaru that I am a bit leery about it shearing down over time (my Subaru and others seem to consume more Mobil 1 than Synpower)...too much to get into right now, but I'm more of a Valvoline Synpower or Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra fan in terms of full synthetics in my Subaru. But I've only used 5W30 in the Sube for its lifetime.

George

 

VI breakdown shouldn't be the issue it is with dino oil.

My bad but this isn't for a Ford truck, it's a Nissan V6 with 140K. Owned it since 11K and it consumes no noticeable oil. I'm changing it at 10K intervals, and not going to bother with analysis.

My trucks are all diesels and 460s that get Rotella T6 5W40. I'd consider a 0W40 or the Mobil 1 diesel 5W40s but I bought a bunch of T6 on sale and have enough for some time.

 

I delve into the industrial end with work. Gearboxes of all types, light thru heavy industrial machinery and etc. The operating temperature range tends to be narrower than an engine would see in a northern climate during the 4 seasons however it depends where the equipment is stored. Some machinery ends up in a non heated or A/C out building running a gearbox temp of over 200 degrees (operating temp) for 12 hours a day, sometimes longer and can change when the weather changes. They expect to start the equipment up and run whether cold or hot out. Some equipment is in a climate controlled building and temp swing is much narrower. Believe it or not these gearboxes are coming from the factory filled with synthetic oil. You are basically looking at minimum $50 gallon for replacement oil. Of course when the end user is industrial or even commercial the price tends to jump exponentially.

For your conditions I would just run the 5w-30, as it is more common. Myself I am not really brand specific, I just use a good quality major brand oil. For instance Wally world had M1 on sale for a tad under $23 5 quart bottle which is cheaper than Pennzoil Plat, Valv Synpower and etc that was next to it. Sometimes Pennzoil Ultra is on sale so I buy that.

Now I can see if you get a UOA after 10k miles with say M1 5w-30 I can see wanting to stick with 5w-30 M1 next time around. For me I don't put all kinds of money into UOA like some guys do. For what UOA with TBN costs I can change the oil for a few bucks more.

For startup wear prevention IMO the oil filter (anti drainback valve) is a big part. I avoid certain filter brands, for my Fords it is Motorcraft filters or a Purolater Pure One in a pinch.

 

Thanks for the info; I appreciate your insight into oils. Costco has Mobil 1 for $36 for a 6-quart case, and every other month they have a $10 off coupon, so I pay $26 for 6 quarts. I think they've only got 5W20 and 5W30 weights.

My best deal on full syn was 24 quarts of 5W20 Quaker State torquepower on an Advance Auto closeout for 99 cents a quart (4 changes for my van for $10 each including a Motorcraft 820S). Hard one to turn down... And I'm with you on filters--Motorcrafts on my E150 or Purolators (which make Motorcraft), usually Pure Ones, which I get in bundled deals with oil on sale.

My van is back on Motorcraft syn blend and it is great oil.

George