I recently picked up my second 7.3IDI project. It's a bone stock 1988 F250 2WD reg cab and box 7.3/ZF5/3.55. It only has 96,000km's/59,500miles on it. The interior and body are mint which is very rare for my location(northern Canada). It has a matching high rise topper and the seller included the Ford factory manual for the truck as well as the factory manual for the 7.3. He said the manuals are worth $600 but I have no idea. I got it for $1500 which is a great price and the only problem with it is the seller said the clutch has recently been starting to slip in high gear. There's no vibrations or noises to indicate an imminent DMF explosion.

Any opinions on how soon I'll have to change the clutch? I'm tight for cash so I'd like to postpone it if the clutch still has some life in it.

Is it a job I can do myself? I have plenty of time and have been working on my own vehicles for 20 years, restoring old cars, etc. I've just never had to change a clutch before. I'll be doing it in my driveway with no garage using a floor jack to lower the tranny with a buddy to help.

The truck will be used 4-6 months out of the year for yard work, dump runs, etc. But also for hauling classic car projects from neighboring provinces and down in the US with a single car hauler or possibly a dual car hauler if I can afford one.

In the future, I also want to put a turbo on it as cash allows, so what clutch would be the best fit for my application. I'm going with the SMF conversion. I'd rather spend more cash on a quality clutch than save a few bucks and have to deal with again in 5 years.

Thanks to everyone for there advice and opinions.

 

my guess is that the clutch is fine. the problem is in the dual mass flywheel. they work well on paper, but in real life they are pure junk.
what happens is that once they heat up under load they start to slip resembling a bad clutch.

the one in my 88 was so bad that after an hour of driving you could stop, put the truck in 5th gear, let the clutch out, and it would stay running.
let the truck sit for 4-5 hours to cool off. fire it up and put it in second gear, rev it up and dump the clutch and smoke the tires off it.

the only real fix is to replace the DMF with a solid flywheel design like the LUK clutch setup.

or convert the truck to automatic trans like i did.

 

Thanks Tom. I was wondering why it would slip in high gear but not when taking off if it was the clutch. I also thought it was weird the clutch was already slipping at only 60K seeing as the truck is mint.

I have a bad back so the auto swap would be the ideal solution, but finding a decent used E4OD in my area is next to impossible and I'm on a tight budget(why I want to put it myself) so I think the LUK setup is the most practical way to go.

From researching the site I know the DMF is a time bomb but it's not making any death noises or vibrations. Should I just bite the bullet and change it out to save the tranny from possibly becoming a victim of the DMF? Is it a job I can do in my driveway having never changed a clutch before? Time is not an issue and it doesn't have to run for two weeks if necessary. I still have my 4x4 F250 to use anyway. Any suggestions on the cheapest site that carries the LUK kit?
Thanks.

 

it is a fairly straight forward swap. chock the wheels. drop the driveshaft.
hook the trans up to a trans jack. put a bottle jack with a block of wood under the oil pan to support the engine. unbolt/remove the cross member. unbolt/remove flywheel cover. go inside the cab and remove the carpet/floor mat, trans floor plate, shifter, and reverse light switch wires. unbolt top trans bolts from inside cab. go back under the truck and remove the clutch slave cylinder and the other 4 trans bolts.
slide the trans back out of the way.
remove the pressure plate, clutch, and flywheel.
install in reverse.
on a two wheel drive truck, a luk kit should only take 2 people 4-5 hours to put in total time.
by yourself taking it easy i would say 2 days.
it took me 4 days to do a complete manual to auto swap on my 88 4X4 from the time i pulled it into the garage to pulling out for a road test, and that also included tracking down parts.

 

Thanks Tom. I'm going to try and do it myself. The truck has one other issue so far. It runs fine but was hard starting. The seller said it never had that issue before, but he thinks it's either the glow plug relay or possibly the timer is not working. The glow plug light cycles properly which leads me to believe the relay is malfunctioning or there's a corroded terminal. The seller said he would take the truck back if it was an issue for me. I'm new to 7.3IDI's having bought my first one last Winter, so I'm not sure how big an issue it is. The truck to me is worth the $1500 regardless so I'm going to keep it.

 

Hard starting is a simple fix; either you've got air intrusion or GP issues -- either way, a <$100 fix.

 

Tom nailed it.
The DMF in my truck started slipping. I had trouble making it up a big hill, but on flat ground was fine. I actually took it apart and found the internal clutch was screwed up.

I did the DMF swap by myself, maybe a day and a half? Although part of that time was spent messing around trying to fix a transmission leak. If you don't have a tranny jack, you might want to look at getting one, or renting/borrowing it. The ZF is a heavy transmission and if your back is messed up you don't want to be under there trying to balance it on a regular floor jack.

Also, the Luk kit I used had a very dramatic effect on the pedal effort. The stock DMF felt like I had to stomp with all my force on the pedal. Maneuvering a trailer left my knee and leg sore. The Luk kit feels like a regular car clutch, much much easier to use. I've had it in for a few years and have done some decent towing with no problems.

 

Thanks for the opinions guys. I have more info to add to the situation. Because of my back, I've been going back and forth on if I should attempt the job. So I called a local tranny shop that I've dealt with before to see if I can afford to pay them to do it. They're a family business and have been open for at least 40 years and I know they do good work. I told the owner I wanted a quote to swap it over to a SMF setup like the LUK. He quoted me about $700CAD/$650US for the labour plus the cost of whatever kit I wanted to use. Which seems reasonable if I can afford it(not sure I can).
But he questioned why I wanted to go to the SMF setup. He told me he had never seen a DMF failure that wiped out the tranny. He went on to say it was up to me what I used but that he did have a brand new OEM Ford DMF and clutch that was in a load of parts he got at an auction for a shop going out of business. He said he would sell it to me for cheap whether they fixed it or I fixed it myself.
He also has a 88-90ish F250 2wd 7.3/E4OD excab sitting in the back lot of the shop. It's rusted and rough but he installed a rebuilt E4OD in it. He was willing to sell me the whole truck to do a swap to auto if I wanted to go that route. When I was talking with him he was busy with customers so he said to come by the shop this Wednesday to get the prices and look at the F250. The auto swap is probably not going to happen. So I have a few options on how to proceed.

I think I'm going to buy the OEM Ford DMF and clutch if he prices it cheap regardless. If I don't use it in my 2wd, I have my 89 F250 7.3/ZF5 4x4 that I only use in the yard to snowplow with so I could use it in that. Plowing is all low speed where the SMF can apparently cause bad vibrations. I think it still has the original DMF with 130K miles on it and my TC won't shift into 4Lo so I have to probably pull the TC anyway before winter. If I can do the swap myself I'll have a new DMF and clutch for under $300 all in. It will take me the next 30 years to put 5000 miles on it because it's used just for plowing in the winter so I don't think the DMF will ever get worn to the point of failure if it's replaced with OEM Ford parts. I also have a spare ZF5 for each truck that I got for $200 each so even if I eventually grenade the DMF, I have a spare tranny.

But for my 88 F250 7.3/ZF5 2wd that I'm going to drive a few times a week, use for towing cars home, dump runs etc. I think the LUK setup probably would be the best fit. Unless the consensus is that the rebuilt E4OD is better for towing a car hauler and 1-2 cars? If I can find a cheap used Banks Sidewinder kit, I'll be adding that to the 2wd as well.

 

get the info/details and price for that E40D swapped in.never hurts to explore all options.

 

yup. i agree completely.



and pass on the DMF setup. a complete luk clutch setup is around $500.
a dual mass flywheel alone is over $800. then you have to still buy the clutch, and throw out bearing

if you put a new DMF in there, you are replacing a broken POS with a new POS ticking time bomb.
it is not a matter of if it will fail, it is a matter of when it will fail. because IT WILL FAIL, just like the one in there now did, no matter what anyone tries telling you.

 

First, I appreciate everyone's advice and help for a newbie. Tom, I get what your saying about the problems with the DMF but he has the OEM Ford Dual Mass Flywheel and clutch that he said he would sell me cheap. So I would only need the throw out bearing and he may have that as well. I won't know until tomorrow how cheap he's willing to let it go for but he seemed to infer CHEAP. I'll post the price for you guys tomorrow night. If he's $200 or less for the DM flywheel and clutch should I still pass considering it would go into my plow truck that literally won't see 5000 miles in the next 30 years? Or does snowplowing my driveway(sometimes 4-5' snow drifts on a 400-500' driveway) create enough force to cause a failure even in a new DMF setup?

For my 2wd that will be street driven, I see the point of the LUK setup or an E4OD swap.

What are the opinions on ZF5 vs. E4OD for towing with the 2wd? The trucks max load would be hauling a tandem axle single car hauler, a project car, and parts. The truck has 3:55's but I also have a 4:10 diff I can swap in.

To further complicate the decision, I found a 90 2wd F350 C&C with a 7.3 and recently rebuilt E4OD. The cab is rotten and the frame is crusty but it runs fine and doesn't smoke. It has new brakes(rotors, calipers, pads) and the back 4 tires are decent. The mileage is 370,000km/230,000miles. Can I use the F350 rotors on my F250? The truck I bought needs the brakes done so it would be a bonus to be able to use the F350 stuff. But I assume you would have to run the F350 rims because of the F350 rotors wider spacing of the front rims.

Here's some pics of the trucks.
The brown 88 F250 7.3/ZF5 2wd is the truck I bought for $1500.





This is the red 90 F250 2wd E4OD donor the tranny shop will sell me. Mileage 270,000km/170,000miles. It looks pretty rough. Price not yet known.





The last truck is the 90 F350 7.3/E4OD 2wd C&C. He had it listed locally for $1500. He told me to make an offer after I told him it was a parts truck to me. I was going to offer $750.

 

I went to the tranny shop and the DM flywheel is a Valeo brand #167750 which is for a 1994-98 Ford Pickup 7.3L DI Turbo, 5-Spd 8th Digit VIN is "F". The clutch was from "Trans Action" but I couldn't find any info on it. Part #902897. The throw out bearing was there as well. I'm guessing I can't use the 94-98 parts in my 88??? He said he'd take $200 for the flywheel, clutch, and throw out bearing.

The red F250 he has doesn't have a rebuilt E4OD, he just knows it works fine. But judging by the rough condition of the truck and the mileage I'm not willing to put all that work into swapping it with using a questionable tranny.

So if the 94-98 parts won't work in my truck I either buy the LUK setup or the F350 to swap the E4OD.

 

not sure if the powerstroke setup will work on your 88 or not. about the only way to tell is see if the part numbers are the same for the powerstroke and NA engines.

 

Cool, rusty fan belt, don't see those often.

Just a FWIW, I just read in another post were someone said the PS stuff is balanced differently than the IDI, not to use it. No verification though, so just a FWIW...

^^^^ x 1,000. The floor jack idea works for small car transmissions, but you do NOT want to do this with any of the full size truck transmissions that Ford used. Bad back would be the least of your worries when a transmission is sitting on your face.

IMO an E4OD downgrade is a bad idea, you'll be chasing problems for the rest of the time you own the truck.

As to DMF not damaging the transmission:

 

The psd stuff wont bolt to the idi I checked when I had my 93 apart and I have a 2002 psd on the stand in the shop.
I've done a e4od swap, it is not a down grade, if you do a couple upgrades one is get a decent aftermarket torque converter and put in a trans temp gauge. See if you can get any paper work on the e40d rebuild.