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Rattling under hood with 5w - 40 synthetic

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Old 07-25-2014, 03:18 AM
afinepoint afinepoint is offline
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Rattling under hood with 5w - 40 synthetic

Got to change the oil today.

Was curious regarding using 5W - 40 synthetic year round vice the "preferred" 15W - 40 recommended in the manual for 30+ temp and 10W - 30 for below. Been using Rotella 5w -40 synthetic past 30k miles here in Va where temp can get single digit. My one concern is noisy valve/cams on upshifts - automatic. Sounds like giant Cicadas under the hood. Worried it is metal to metal. Noise was much less when I would run heavier winter oil but truck would "romp" big time.

Called Ford and they recommend sticking with 15w - 40 and changing when cold but was 5w -40 synthetic in use in 2001?

Seems to me an oil with a wider range should always replace (and protect as) one with a narrower but not the reverse.

Sorry for long post. Got 5w - 40 Mobil 1 turbo diesel in garage and having second thoughts. Wrote Mobil and the said it is a good choice. Of course they sell it and it's not their engine.

Yes, I've done a long search and study on synthetic vs. non, what the API numbers mean, Mobil vs. Rotella vs. . . . and so on. This side of the oils has been well but not definitively covered. So not trying to start an opinion war debate.

Again thanks.

Reg
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:00 AM
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I very much doubt that the whatever noise you are hearing has anything to do with the 5-40 oil.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:40 AM
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loose rockers or injector holddown bolts????
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:52 AM
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I think this is a valid question. My truck is absolutely quieter with a cooler engine than when it warms up... but I can't rule out a lot of variables other than oil. As I understand the multiweight thing, the base stock is the low number - then "science" gets the weight up the top number. The fun part is our HEUI systems shred the science, and we're left with the base weight after enough miles. I know my last oil change (106 degrees outside, with a "cool" engine) demonstrated how thin my oil was at drain time. Even with fresh oil and easy driving, I'm getting bubbles on the dip stick with my 5-40. This leads me to many questions:
  • How many people are experiencing bubbles on the dipstick with synthetic oil?
  • Does it lead to cackle the way it does with bubbles in fuel?
  • What is the source of the bubbles - is it different on each truck?
  • If it's mechanical - Valve guide clearances foaming the oil? LPOP? Bad pickup in oil sump? Other?
  • Does switching to dead dinos get rid of the bubbles on the dipstick... supposedly quieting the oil cackle?
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:58 AM
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I've used numerous brands and both weights mentioned. Never seen any bubbles personally.

OP, with a 5w40 your oil is just as thick when warm as a 15w40. The difference lies in viscosity at LOW temperatures. The only other notable difference between weights generally is the tendancy for wider oils to shear more due to manufacturing practices to achieve wider multiweight.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:26 PM
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To clear up some confusion:

Mineral (conventional) multi-viscosity oil relies on polymers added to the oil to achieve the viscosity range. Because the additives break down, the viscosity of conventional oil at operating temperature tends to thin out faster than synthetics.

Synthetics do not rely on polymers, the viscosity range (which is really just the property of thinning less as the temperature increases) is a property of the oil itself, no polymer additives are needed to achieve the viscosity range, although synthetics do still have some additives they are not to control viscosity.

Back to the OP, "giant cycads" sounds on upshift to my tiny brain seems way more like turbo stall or surge than anything to do with the oil.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:51 PM
afinepoint afinepoint is offline
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Used AMSOIL 15W-40 synthetic diesel. Wanted to try the recommended weight one last time yet stay with synthetic.
.
The specs may say 16 quarts but I never get more than 12 - 13 out. Thirteen this time.

Anyone ever drain the HPOP and related parts?
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:01 PM
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When changing to a different quality oil, the results may not be as expected, All has to do with prior history.
Many times past history is at fault and not the lubricant.

The issue needs to be sourced and usually it will be mechanical.

Take more time to let things work together before making a change, it takes time and monitoring, By the way are you using better quality oil filters? if you use the OEM quality filter it will be of a lesser quality than a Mobil1 or AMSOIL type filters
and this will cause issues.
AMSOIL is known to clean out a varnished engine and will need to have a high quality filter to catch these smaller contaminates than the OEM type filters can handle and these contaminates can make for a noisy engine until it has been cleaned.
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
My truck is absolutely quieter with a cooler engine than when it warms up...
My truck is exactly opposite running Rotella 15/40 year round, it gets quieter after warmup. Especially after a long high speed run she will idle so quiet and beautiful I hate to shut her off! I am just sure everyone around me at the fuel station feels the same way so I just leave her run for everyone's enjoyment.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:05 PM
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2 quarts of oil in the fuel tank of my wife's excursion and it sounds like a totally different engine.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "idiabuse
if you use the OEM quality filter it will be of a lesser quality than a Mobil1 or AMSOIL type filters
and this will cause issues.
Where did you source this information. As an amsoil dealer I recommend. Motorcraft filters whenever possible. I've got 10 different oil filters cut open in my garage. Mobil 1 has no different t construction than Motorcraft and the Motorcraft spec is very good. You could do worse for oil filters than Motorcraft.

If you can substantiate those claims please post the information I'd like to see it please. For science reasons of course.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Ox4 View Post
Where did you source this information. As an amsoil dealer I recommend. Motorcraft filters whenever possible. I've got 10 different oil filters cut open in my garage. Mobil 1 has no different t construction than Motorcraft and the Motorcraft spec is very good. You could do worse for oil filters than Motorcraft.

If you can substantiate those claims please post the information I'd like to see it please. For science reasons of course.

Take a magnifying glass and look at the media, the strands in synthetic media filters are in the millions.
The media in your MOTOCRAFT filters look like a hurricane knocked down a forest.

The synthetic media flows oil sooner and more oil is filtered.
For example in ten seconds a quart will pass through cellulose
media.
in the same ten seconds a gallon will flow through synthetic media.
the engine will operate for a longer period of time without the bypass
in the filter opening, filtering more oil, especially with cold start.

AMSOIL is great oil but not so great with OEM filters cause it wont last as long.

Now that is said this is true for the Signature series oils made to run 25,000 miles.

The other blends designed for less mileage, will work fine with the Motorcraft style/quality filters.

I try and stay away from the OEM filters, they end up costing me more $$$
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A/Ox4 View Post
I've got 10 different oil filters cut open in my garage..
Have you happened to cut open a Fleetguard LF9207? Just curious as I've been using them for years, never did use Motorcraft.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:57 PM
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Running Rotella T-6 5-40 and Motorcraft filters and changing at 10k. My Blackstone reports have been consistently great. That's my science, not inclined to change.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idiabuse View Post

Take a magnifying glass and look at the media, the strands in synthetic media filters are in the millions.
The media in your MOTOCRAFT filters look like a hurricane knocked down a forest.

The synthetic media flows oil sooner and more oil is filtered.
For example in ten seconds a quart will pass through cellulose
media.
in the same ten seconds a gallon will flow through synthetic media.
the engine will operate for a longer period of time without the bypass
in the filter opening, filtering more oil, especially with cold start.

AMSOIL is great oil but not so great with OEM filters cause it wont last as long.

Now that is said this is true for the Signature series oils made to run 25,000 miles.

The other blends designed for less mileage, will work fine with the Motorcraft style/quality filters.

I try and stay away from the OEM filters, they end up costing me more $$$
Unless there has been a product change I'm not aware of signature series oils from amsoil are for gasoline engines. The top diesel oils are called premium.

Amsoil only recommends running premium 5w-40 in a 7.3L for up to 9,000 miles per their warranty. They so allow for extending with UOA.

Filters aren't supposed to exceed oil life.

I run my Motorcraft past 15,000 miles and UOA reveals minimal particulates.

Like I said, if you can provide data I'd love to see it. Otherwise its just product description. I would actually love to read about how synthetic media flows better than cellulose. To me flow and filtration are mutually exclusive. I'd like to understand how it can filter more and flow more without additional pressure to increase flow.
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