Hi Guys,
I am very familiar with diesels having had a 99 7.3 and a 2008 6.7 Cummins in the last 5 years. I had to unload the Cummins because of a job change, and I don't drive much anymore. I paid cash for a 76 f250 with the 360 as temporary transportation. It was a little more temporary than I thought as it just is not very road worthy and being a regular cab it is limited in it's hauling abilities. Not to mention it burns a ton of fuel.

I am looking for a diesel, that is old, simple, reliable, and easy to work on. Something close to the 99, but I could do without the computers. I am a Cummins fan, but vastly prefer Ford over Dodge (In fact, I don't think I could drive an older Dodge), and anything with a Cummins in it has an outrageous price tag. So, I am doing a slow and gradual transition to find what I want. Basically, a back seat for the dog is a requirement, diesel is a requirement, stick shift is a requirement, decent fuel economy (15 - 18 depending on weather and terrain), 4x4 is a requirement, either a flat bed or an 8 ft bed, decent road manners, and a more friendly interior than the 76 (no holes in the floorboards, less road noise, actually can have a conversation and don't get leaked on in wet weather). Reliability is also a major requirement. I am not looking to make massive power, just enough to tow an occasional mid range load, run at freeway speeds, and climb passes with relative ease (compared to the average gasser) etc.

So, I have been perusing Craigslist and found this truck.



I have sent him an e-mail but haven't hear back. I am super interested in this truck.

So, some questions. The CDR sounds like an old version of CCV and from my searching, doesn't sound hard to fix, maybe even just delete and vent to the atmosphere (done it on all my trucks)?

Second, I read about cavitation and I am going to ask about SCA's etc. but haven't figured out how to determine if I'd be buying a time bomb, or if I was meticulous with the coolant, it would be ok.

Third, is 285,000 miles king to be a problem? I fully aware of diesel longevity and I am hoping it applies to IDI's if they are well maintained. I am not expecting a perfect truck, but would hope to get some more miles out of it. I would hold off on the turbo setup that comes with it until I did a minor rebuilt I think. I would just need it to be reliable and run until that time.

So that's enough talking from me. What are your thoughts?

 

I don't think he would have put all that money into injectors and pump, plus other stuff without fixing the cdr ($50) part. Also it won't cause it not to suck air through the filter. If the smoke goes away when warm OK. But the white smoke is either fuel or a head gasket. Shouldn't be fuel with a new pump and injectors. If the smoke smells sweet it's a head gasket. I believe user akamacgyver is in co. springs. Maybe you could pm him and he could help you out.

 

The truck does meet your criteria, meeting all points is difficult to do in used find, so there's that.

The cavitation is not likely a problem, it is very uncommon in fact, so if you get it check/charge the scas and forget about it.

Like airdale said, it sounds like it might have a head gasket problem. Also glow plug problem if he has to plug it in to start it.

Don't delete the CDR valve, it needs it. Those that remove them use a road draft tube, but either way it needs something to draw from the crankcase, not vent on it's own.

It looks like a nice enough truck, but with the problems it potentially has the price is too high, I'd try to get him down. On the plus side he has a turbo, if you want to use it great, if not you can get $500+ dollars back out of your purchase price if it's a complete kit by selling it.

 

I would spend the extra coin on something like this myself. The exterior of the other one looks neglected, and if he neglected that who knows what else!

**92 F250, 4x4 7.3 IDI Turbo Lariet XCab LongBed

Good luck,

Mac.

Airdale, I am in Denver, about an hour from Co Springs, I might be able to help him out.

 

No way. If you can find me a $50 CDR, send me a link. I had to go thru the ford parts site to find one, and it was over 80 bucks.

 

So he responded and said that the PO had a diesel mechanic friend that did the re-gearing of the truck. I think he chose the wrong word and it is more like rebuilt the diffs. I am guessing he might not have done any of the work. But, he also said he has receipts for all of the work done.

I asked him how he knows it is a CDR issue and not a head gasket directly and asked him if the smoke smelled sweet.

I also interpreted is comment about -40 in Montanna and plugging it in is that he is worried without access to a block heater when it is extremely cold, he would miss class which wouldn't acceptable? I'll ask him if he needs the block heater or ether to start it.

My question is if it is a head gasket, wouldn't it smoke when warm? Also if the smoke is blue sometimes and white others, why the inconsistency in color? Last question is if I worked him down to the right price, how difficult and costly is a new head gasket? I don't know much about HG failures. I would be willing to do the work for the right deal... hard to determine the risk though.


Did you notice the burnt insulation in the engine picture? I saw that one, but bailed right away when I saw evidence of a fire. I am not at the point yet where I would want anyone to take time to look at it. I really appreciate the offer though. This is in Longmont.

Edit: his response
I've never used ether I can't speak for him. When it's cold it starts the first time it turns over when it's hot it turns over 3 or 4 times then starts it's odd but it starts. I had a diesel mechanic tell me it was the cdr valve I know the smoke isn't coolant though and I've never plugged it in I actually still have temps for it I got the truck fixed it to where it's running and now I have to sell it so it's a bit of a let down for me but a good deal for you. The pump he had done at a shop and I have the old pump and lines still

I did all the work except pump and axels

 

The insulation isn't burnt from a fire. It just wears out. Dad has a 92 dakota with only 190,000km's on it, and the insulation looks the exact same. The heat just breaks it down over time, just like oil. I think the truck looks to be in decent shape.

 

If guy who put the pump on didn't have a timing meter, he may have set the timing by ear. too far advance can make them smoke. Or he thought more timing means more power, true on other diesels, but The idi is a different breed of diesel.

 

Interesting, that's a sign of a tired IP. I know he says he had it replaced, but considering the junk parts stores sell these days it may not be a good rebuild.

The dark smoke at idle might just be the fuel is turned up to high on the IP. The white smoke does sound like head gasket, I can only guess that the fact that it goes away when warm is the gasket is still sealing once it is expanded from the heat. That means it's close to failing. Not an horrible job to do the gaskets, but these heads are heavy! And the gaskets aren't cheap either, figure just under $200 for a headset and valley pan/gasket.

No matter what, the price on that truck needs to go down, there is work involved. Looks like that hood is bent or sprung also.

 

So here is some more correspondence.

From me:
Just a clarification, does the white smoke occur every time the truck starts or just when the ambient temperature is cold? Do you know if the mechanic that put the injection pump in did the timing by ear or with a meter?


His response:
I'm not sure on the pump. I went to get the timing checked and ran out of money. The interior is rough it does have the captains chairs and I wanted to remove them and put a bench seat in but recently as in yesterday someone stole the face plate to the stereo and 2 of the rims that were on the flat bed to make a matching set. The drivers side door panel is loose but one screw would fix that the windshield wiper relay is out so the **** isn't in but I have all the parts and that's about it I think for problems with it. White smoke only occurs when the engine is cold but once the temp needle gets to about 1/3 of the way up it quits and goes to black smoke when I stomp on it and blue smoke at idle and when I'm driving. I did remove the lifters and clean them and the valve covers and in the past month I've changed the oil twice just flushing the engine of the old oil the guy had left in it. I am interested in your highboy if you could send me pictures or a link to the add that would be great. I just took these pictures about 5 minutes ago

I'll post the pictures later. So it may need head gasket, steering pump, and possibly an injection pump or timing work. Any guesses as to te cost if I did it myself and the urgency? Would you just stay away from it no matter what?

 

The IP is the priciest problem if it does need one and you have to make sure to get a quality one, not a part store repaint.

There's a member at Oil Burners that will rent you a timing meter if you don't want to buy one so you can be sure to get it dialed in correctly.

First time I've ever heard of someone wanting to take out the captain's chairs for a bench seat...

 

If the engine starts at all when hot, you're fine for a good while -- what happens is you've got spacing between the IP rotor and injection ports. When it gets hot, the gap between them expands, and the pressure leaks down before it has a chance to inject, resulting in hot starting issues, especially after letting it sit for an hour or two and 'heat soak'.
What is happening to you is that it requires a few revs to build up enough internal pressure to actually inject.

Stanadyne ended up making a tighter-tolerance upgraded pump head/rotor because of this issue; if you look at the IP, you will see a nameplate on the side. If it's an old-style pump, it has a black nameplate. If it's new, it's a blue nameplate.
However, I've had both pumps do this sort of thing, especially with stock-or-higher pressure injectors.

Also, starting speed affects it greatly -- a slight increase in speed and it will be able to build up pressure faster, and it starts.


In your case, you have an older pump which has a new set of seals and probably a new advance piston; aside from potential hot-start issues, it should work fine. The problem is that a new head/rotor is around $400, so none of the low-end rebuilds include it.

Timing wise, it depends on what you want/need. You can time it with a proper tool, or just 'by ear' -- there are instructions around here on how to do either. 'by ear' can get you pretty close, with a lot less cost; you're basically just comparing performance and adjusting the timing based on what you get when you move it a little one way or another.


Like the IP, it's a matter of "Can I live with slightly less performance and/or issues, or do I want to spend $500+ on a new IP and $100+ on getting it timed?"
It's the same deal with other stuff -- especially when you are short on funds.
And you don't have to make it perfect now; you can always wait for more money or do it slowly over time.

 

I have a meter and timing light if you buy one and want to take a drive up to Denver to time it right.

 

Yea, I wrote him to make sure he still has them

So it MAY be more of an IP issue than a HG issue, or it may be both. I guess the blue smoke indicates oil burning, and as said before, white is either coolant or fuel. Is it possible for the IP to cause blue smoke? That answers my other questions though. Thank you very much for the detailed response. I would be very pleased if it ran through the summer and would expect/want to work on it this winter.

thank you very much. I will probably take you up on that.

So here is an update and I have been thinking about this all day. There are several parts.

First, he is sending me videos, probably tomorrow of a cold start, and extra footage of the smoke, blowby, and the rest of the truck. So that should help me/us determine how soon it will need significant work... hopefully... Thanks again for all of your help.

Second, he needs a truck to replace his, so I brought up my highboy and he is very interested. He was interested in a flat trade and I get to keep the new tires I just put on. He seems willing to meet me halfway, which is 2 hours from him on I70. So potentially, we each prove our trucks are drivable, swap wheels and tires maybe, and head back home. Does anyone see any reason why F250 wheels from 76 wouldn't fit an F250 from 89? I know the bolt pattern is identical, and my wheels are narrow white steelies. His are mismatched, but I am assuming there is a higher chance mine wouldn't fit his than his not fitting mine. thoughts?

Third, I purchased the highboy to be a project truck with the original intention of swapping in a cummins. Reality set in a little bit, and don't think it would be worth the trouble... I am not a gasoline engine fan at all and I am eager to get back in a diesel. In addition, as I had new mechanical experiences to my resume, I do want to rebuild an engine myself. So I was thinking that it would be a fun project to rebuild this one and the put the turbo kit on at the same time. That way I could ensure I wasn't going to accelerate destruction of the internal components of the engine, as they would be rebuilt, in addition to having the satisfaction and experience of rebuilding, and turbo-ing my first engine. The catch is I need to not do it right now, but maybe later in the year.

Last, I just really like this truck, and the trade seems about right. I would essentially be paying a little less that 2000 for it. Mine needs work, his needs work, different kinds, but still. Both are probably at their lowest value, so the work done should add to that...

Am I thinking wrong here?

So here are some more photos. I did notice that the engine bay has a lot of wires showing. Is that normal for these? I asked him about it and the diff breather sagging low, if that is actually what it is. Anyway. Thanks for your time!

 

That trade sounds like a good deal.

Your wheels will swap out fine.

You are right, there is a fair amount of loose wiring on the pass side of the engine bay. Nothing too hard to clean up though, the engine wiring on these trucks is pretty simple and straight forward.

The engine and undercarriage pics look pretty dry, which is good to see there's aren't excessive leaks anyways.