Low ICP when accelerating & possible Aeration
#1
Low ICP when accelerating & possible Aeration
Any help would be appreciated from this expert team & forum.
I don't post much, but I have been reading forums for years and usually figure it out on my own based on other posts. But, not this one. So, here it goes.
History (not to confess all my stupid mistakes but for better diagnostic feedback):
Idling cold
Accelerating Cold
Granny'ing It
Idling Warm
Hope you have some tips for me.
I don't post much, but I have been reading forums for years and usually figure it out on my own based on other posts. But, not this one. So, here it goes.
History (not to confess all my stupid mistakes but for better diagnostic feedback):
- 2002 7.3L PSD Excursion with 230k miles, bought with 185K miles. Came with Edge programmer & 4" exhaust & Jasper tranny, but I don't think any other mods, ie...turbo & injectors. Ran very strong. When got on hwy & accelerate, the X would put you back in the seat!
- Converted to WVO for 3+years too, using WVO DESIGNS adjustable fuel pump & 2 tank system. Have it @ 70-80 psi. Have always purged to diesel. However, I have ran out of wvo several times due to no wvo fuel guage, loss of prime, etc, etc. But once re-primed, always ran great.
- Then about 15months ago, it started to overheat on hwy (cause leak in radiator hose connection), coasted to side of road, got towed, had to replace several pushrods that eventually broke over the course of next 500 miles or so, but everything seemed good after that, even did road trip of 3000 miles.....but I babied it the entire way, not wanting to break down yet again.
- Then 8 months ago for winter season, I changed oil & somehow I overfilled oil by 3-4 qts. Maybe cause was purging HPOP with fresh oil & didn't take note. I don't know. Can't believe I did that. Anyway, drove it not that much & locally only....mainly cause running so poorly. Finally figured out that oil got aerated, so in March I changed it (HPOP too) to proper level this time, & new oil filter of course. It ran pretty good.
- However, I started noticing in like May that I have loss of power again under acceleration & ICP is only 700'sh & IPR 65%. If i back out of it & granny it, then ICP builds up a bit & IPR drops back to like 35% or so and then it feels like there is potential of power. See pic of my Torque gauges. The other day I did an hour drive. Truck sat for 2hrs or so, then drove back. Of course, cruises hwy ok, but not big power. Then when come off hwy, it stalls. Scary. And every time I slow down to stop, it stalls or almost stalls & hard re-start. And loud F.I.'s for a few seconds. I get home & pull dipstick and has bubble again like when over-filled. But this is new motorcraft 15w-40 oil since March and is even showing 1 qt low (halfway on hash marks), which is pretty close to what I filled it to in March...cause I didn't want to overfill it again.
- New WVO DESIGNS fuel pump, replacing factor pump
- New CPS long time ago, like 3yrs ago, but really was ICP problem
- 25c UVCH mod on both sides 2yrs ago
- New ICP On my 2nd (changed 1.5yrs ago)
- New updated Rifraff FPR last summer
- New pushrods last summer
- New GPCM in Dec
- New ford oem GP's in March
- New Rifraff HPX in March
- New Rifraff upper turbo boots in March (after good cleaning & hairspray finally got to hold)
- New fuel filter in May
- Hutch Mod in June (my problem happens on Diesel or WVO)
- Never did compression test
- Never F.I. tests
- Never official ICP or IPR tests other than watching my gauges
- I have done a fair amount of reading on cracked oil pickup & failing LPOP in all forums. Sadly most of them end with no explanation of what really was the fix. I know some replaced oil pickup with success & no sucess. For some it was LPOP all messed up. So, I did a little test. X was sitting for 3 full days AND sitting UPHILL....which for cracked pickup tube scenario seems like worst scenario and the typical 1st problem is hard starting. So i got my little OBDB Torque gauges app running & tried starting it. And it very quickly started...after 3 days of sitting UPHILL...so fast that gauges didn't even read anything. So then i rev'd it up to 2000 rpms for like 1+ minute, plenty of time for 2-3 gauge updates. Result: IPR never got above 24% and ICP 2000psi. And oil temp is 85..."cold".....just started after 3 days of sitting. And i park UPHILL everyday. And it sits like this for days. It starts well & never dies out while idling. So to me that seems to eliminate the cracked pickup pipe. What do you think? And i pulled dipstick after the total run time of like maybe 2-3 minutes and already some bubbles!
So then what is causing aeration problem. And remember after doing errands or actually even very quickly after 3-5 minutes of run time down street & road, i get same low power symptoms the second i get into it, low ICP 762 psi, & maxed out IPR 65%. For instance, I was accelerating, boost of 10, I'm trying to accelerate, but little power & only 762 ICP. If i back out of it & granny it, then ICP builds up a bit & IPR drops back to like 35% and then it feels like there is potential of power. And when pull dipstick out, i have air bubbles again.
So if IPR & ICP good at idle & when rev up with no load but mess up as soon it gets under load, could that be LPOP? Or what sound like to you?
To me it is the aeration.....but what causing it? Seems like not pickup line. What about HPOP or bad fuel injectors or bad IPR? Could oil still be overfilled even though dipstick saying 1 qt low? It is stock dipstick & oil pan as far as I can tell & has never led me wrong in 4yrs of ownership.
- So this am (70° air temp) i did another test run. Start it and immediately within 1 min, I'm on main rd & accelerate. Immediately, I have low ICP while accelerating even when everything is cold. AND the second i let off throttle, ICP jumps to like 3200 psi. See Pic. Notice the little red mark @ like 2800. That pic is just 1 example of what it jumps to when let off throttle. But without fail, when let off accelerator, it jumps to around 3000 psi & then back off in sync with IPR backing down. Does that indicate anything?
And after 10min of test driving, i pull dipstick and not even 1 tiny bubble. So then i rev it to 3000 rpm's for 30secs or so (and i had to keep accelerating more to keep it at 3000 rpms), let off throttle and it almost stalls, pull dipstick and see maybe 3-4 tiny bubbles. What does this indicate?
- See attached pics....i labeled for clarity.
Idling cold
Accelerating Cold
Granny'ing It
Idling Warm
Hope you have some tips for me.
#2
#5
Originally Posted by Pikachu
Pikachu Try taking it for a ride with the ICP sensor unplugged and see if there's any improvement or if it gets worse. Is the ICP sensor you have in there now an OEM unit or aftermarket?
#7
Trending Topics
#8
I Disconnected Edge and now my torque gauges show during wot 2200 ICP & the IPR also goes to 64% just a bit slower. See pic. So what does this indicate? 2200 still seems low for WOT, right?
And I pulled dipstick & so tiny bubbles that camera doesn't pickup, but this is after only 5-10min driving.
So, can bad HPOP cause aeration?
What would cause aeration, only 2200 ICP, stall when hot (after rev'd) & hard restarts?
Edge Disconnected & Accelerating Warm
And I pulled dipstick & so tiny bubbles that camera doesn't pickup, but this is after only 5-10min driving.
So, can bad HPOP cause aeration?
What would cause aeration, only 2200 ICP, stall when hot (after rev'd) & hard restarts?
Edge Disconnected & Accelerating Warm
#9
The climbing IPR can indicate a weak HPOP, HPO leak or bad IPR as well as oil aeration. Oil aeration is actually pretty rare, but the first thing I think I'd probably do is an oil change, and see if that makes a difference. If that doesn't cure the problem, it certainly warrants further investigation.
#10
The climbing IPR can indicate a weak HPOP, HPO leak or bad IPR as well as oil aeration. Oil aeration is actually pretty rare, but the first thing I think I'd probably do is an oil change, and see if that makes a difference. If that doesn't cure the problem, it certainly warrants further investigation.
#11
I just chgd oil in march to motocraft 15w40 & only got about 1000 miles on it since.
Now i just tried disconnecting ICP & no difference in performance, although ICP did get to almost 2500 psi, which is weird since it is disconnected. And IPR only got to 40% vs 65% when ICP connected.
See pic....no edge & ICP disconnected & accelerating.
See pic of bubbles on dipstick....after only 3 test runs.
Now i just tried disconnecting ICP & no difference in performance, although ICP did get to almost 2500 psi, which is weird since it is disconnected. And IPR only got to 40% vs 65% when ICP connected.
See pic....no edge & ICP disconnected & accelerating.
See pic of bubbles on dipstick....after only 3 test runs.
#12
If you want to try Ford's oil aeration test, here it is:
Monitor ICP and RPM
Transmission in Park, parking brake set (that one I added)
Turn off A/C and all accessories
Hold engine RPM at 3,400 for 3 minutes
If after 3 minutes the ICP rises over 1,250 psi, the anti-foam additive may have become depleted. Change oil and re-test.
Monitor ICP and RPM
Transmission in Park, parking brake set (that one I added)
Turn off A/C and all accessories
Hold engine RPM at 3,400 for 3 minutes
If after 3 minutes the ICP rises over 1,250 psi, the anti-foam additive may have become depleted. Change oil and re-test.
#13
Look at the FIPW all through the screens... including stock. You could have a monster internal oil leak, bad LPOP, bad oil pickup tube (you don't want this), tired injectors/O-rings, bad IPR, low oil level, or maybe something that doesn't come to mind right now.
230K on your injectors? That's your biggest suspect right there.
230K on your injectors? That's your biggest suspect right there.
#14
Big Progress
Hey, Tugly, I was hoping you'd see my post. I pieced together my Torque app with your PIDs. THANKS!
I made big progress today. I realized edge juice makes sensor readings pretty bogus. While driving without edge juice connected, i got cps code, which started causing it to cut out under load. I guess juice was hiding this issue.
Anyway, Got to friend's house, replaced it with gray spare i was carrying for 2-3 yrs, programmed my ECM via SuperChip 1705 to tow perfect, then HiTunes.
Now, i have no codes at moment, more ICP now, but still not big power. Notice the boost is low too.
And, Tugly, notice FIPW. So, guys, what does all this mean now?
SuperChip 1705 HiTunes, no codes, accelerating.
I made big progress today. I realized edge juice makes sensor readings pretty bogus. While driving without edge juice connected, i got cps code, which started causing it to cut out under load. I guess juice was hiding this issue.
Anyway, Got to friend's house, replaced it with gray spare i was carrying for 2-3 yrs, programmed my ECM via SuperChip 1705 to tow perfect, then HiTunes.
Now, i have no codes at moment, more ICP now, but still not big power. Notice the boost is low too.
And, Tugly, notice FIPW. So, guys, what does all this mean now?
SuperChip 1705 HiTunes, no codes, accelerating.
#15
I just had another thought on this. If you really suspect oil aeration, when I started up after an injector change I could definitely tell the the oil from the discharge spouts had air in it. It had a milky look to it. At first I actually thought it was being contaminated with water or coolant. That's something you could check when you pull the valve covers to see if the o-rings are leaking out the top