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I want to see cabs that don't fold over like paper in the same rollover where the rest of the truck remains in tact. The cab pillars should be designed to make the cab the safest place to sit, not the engine compartment. i'd like more occupant safety in the next SuperDuty. Not more lip service. Not more curtain airbags. But a cab structure that has a higher regard for the life of customers than Ford has gotten away with on the current Super Duty cab.....
Seen that a few times, even an Excursion that did about the same thing in a rollover. Hope the young fellas with the lifted SD's take a good look at that picture and think before they drive like a fool next time.
Seen that a few times, even an Excursion that did about the same thing in a rollover. Hope the young fellas with the lifted SD's take a good look at that picture and think before they drive like a fool next time.
It doesn't even take "driving like a fool". I just recently talked to a guy who is paralyzed neck down. He was in his lifted crew cab dually F-350. His collision opponent, a young lady who walked away, was in a little Volkswagon Beetle. He was making a right hand turn. She was traveling fast in the lane he was turning into, and hit his left front big monster tire. The force flipped him over, and his head, neck and spine were crushed from the cab caving in. He was only going 5 mph.
Now, if he hadn't of lifted his truck, the center of gravity of his monster ego shuttle would not have been so prone to tipping over. However, what is important to note about the photo posted above, and the dozens and dozens of similar cab crushed Super Duty's that I've seen just like it, is that there is no lift at all. It is bone stock suspension, wheels, and tires. Not even the headlights were altered with clear corners.
Complete cab crush in the Super Duty is a problem of vehicle design, not owner stupidity.
I wonder how the Super Duty's roof strength compares to other full size trucks. One thing that I have noticed is that the roof pillars on late model GM and Ram trucks are very thick compared to the SD, which appears to have the same basic cab since 1999. Whether or not the other newer design cabs are really stronger I don't know.
That requires a center differential, which then requires its own locker for it to be as good off-road as a part-time 4x4. So adding weight, cost, parasitic loss, and reducing acceleration/throttle response. I say don't do it.
Don't we already have a awd/4wd system in the expedition. Why couldn't that work
It doesn't even take "driving like a fool". I just recently talked to a guy who is paralyzed neck down. He was in his lifted crew cab dually F-350. His collision opponent, a young lady who walked away, was in a little Volkswagon Beetle. He was making a right hand turn. She was traveling fast in the lane he was turning into, and hit his left front big monster tire. The force flipped him over, and his head, neck and spine were crushed from the cab caving in. He was only going 5 mph.
Now, if he hadn't of lifted his truck, the center of gravity of his monster ego shuttle would not have been so prone to tipping over. However, what is important to note about the photo posted above, and the dozens and dozens of similar cab crushed Super Duty's that I've seen just like it, is that there is no lift at all. It is bone stock suspension, wheels, and tires. Not even the headlights were altered with clear corners.
Complete cab crush in the Super Duty is a problem of vehicle design, not owner stupidity.
Was this truck lifted correctly or like so many other lifted trucks, done for looks and incorrectly due to ignorance? Here in Manitoba when a lifted truck goes in for a vehicle inspection. In order to pass the height and width must meet a standard. The front tread width divided by the sum of the frame height at its highest point, and any body lift shall not be less than 1.80 for vehicles with wheelbase of 254cm (100 in) or more and not less than 2.00 for vehicles with a wheelbase of less than 254 cm (100 in).
When a lift is installed with proper expanding of tire width with wider tires and/or spacers. The chance of roll over is lessened.
My concern is with bone stock trucks... the cabs crush just the same as with lifted trucks... completely... while the rest of the body survives the rollover structurally in tact with only a few scratches and dings.
I think the door on body closure, where doors close onto the body instead of into the body, might be a contributing factor. The industry's move back to "inlaid" doors, that close into the body openings might help. From the spy photos, paying particular attention to the body bra at the upper door seams, it appears that the Ford Super Duty will follow the lead of Dodge and now GM in the move back to inset doors. In fact, to my eye it appears that the 2015 F-150 cabin is a virtual 3D blueprint for what the 2017 Super Duty cab will be like, both inside and out.
However, when asked what do I want to see in the next Super Duty, the main thing I would like to see is a stronger greenhouse that can protect the occupants better in a roll over.
Here's one with little to no lift, and "wider tires" that would seem to give it a wider base. Cab flattens all the same, while the rest of the truck remains in tact enough to presume that the collision this vehicle was involved in was not so overwhelmingly forceful and comprehensive that no amount of cab reinforcement would have helped. Clearly, if the rest of the vehicle remains recognizable, then what is weak here is the cab. It needs to be built better, especially for the $60,000 to $70,000 price tag of loaded Super Duties.
I'd happily give up a 100 horsepower to have a 100% better chance for the cab to not flatten like a pancake.
My concern is with bone stock trucks... the cabs crush just the same as with lifted trucks... completely... while the rest of the body survives the rollover structurally in tact with only a few scratches and dings.
I think the door on body closure, where doors close onto the body instead of into the body, might be a contributing factor. The industry's move back to "inlaid" doors, that close into the body openings might help. From the spy photos, paying particular attention to the body bra at the upper door seams, it appears that the Ford Super Duty will follow the lead of Dodge and now GM in the move back to inset doors. In fact, to my eye it appears that the 2015 F-150 cabin is a virtual 3D blueprint for what the 2017 Super Duty cab will be like, both inside and out.
However, when asked what do I want to see in the next Super Duty, the main thing I would like to see is a stronger greenhouse that can protect the occupants better in a roll over.
Here's one with little to no lift, and "wider tires" that would seem to give it a wider base. Cab flattens all the same, while the rest of the truck remains in tact enough to presume that the collision this vehicle was involved in was not so overwhelmingly forceful and comprehensive that no amount of cab reinforcement would have helped. Clearly, if the rest of the vehicle remains recognizable, then what is weak here is the cab. It needs to be built better, especially for the $60,000 to $70,000 price tag of loaded Super Duties.
I'd happily give up a 100 horsepower to have a 100% better chance for the cab to not flatten like a pancake.
I understand your concern and agree that with the high price tag. If a roll over does occur the cab should be able to handle this safer. I am not as concerned with roll over as with rear or head on accidents. Prefer my truck to handle this.
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I think the door on body closure, where doors close onto the body instead of into the body, might be a contributing factor. The industry's move back to "inlaid" doors, that close into the body openings might help......
I think doors contribute little if any additional strength to the roof structure. I have been told the primary reason for the change to inlaid doors is reduced wind resistance. In many instances, the inner panel of flush mount doors does protrude into the cab where it seals to the weatherstrip.
A change that we are seeing that does contribute to roof strength is the move away from extended cabs that have no 'B' pillar. Extended cabs are becoming short crew cabs with front hinged rear doors and a substantial 'B' pillar. I have been told that extended cabs with rear hinged rear doors and no 'B' pillar are weaker than regular and crew cabs in both rollover and side impact accidents.
Don't we already have a awd/4wd system in the expedition. Why couldn't that work
Not sure about the Expy, I do know the 2011 / 12 Harley Editions and 2011 Lariat Limited's were AWD / 4X4 High.... Never effected my throttle response at all!! It was a selectable system though...not full time AWD.
Whether the Super Duty is worse than, or no worse than, other pickups on the market as far as cabs crushing, can be both debatable as well as immaterial at the same time.
Did you buy an Excursion over a Suburban because the Excursion was "no worse than" the Suburban? Or because you believed that the Excursion was BETTER than the Suburban?
As for what I would like to see in the next Super Duty... I'm not interested in paying for safety that is "no worse than" other brands. I'm interested in buying the safest brand. I'm interested in "Better than".
As Ford is in the midst of retooling their truck plants in a sweeping shift to aluminum, I would like to see Ford simultaneously step up to the plate and make their next generation of cabs structurally safer for us and our families.
Did you buy an Excursion over a Suburban because the Excursion was "no worse than" the Suburban? Or because you believed that the Excursion was BETTER than the Suburban?
Not sure if it was a real question or not, but here goes.
I did buy all 3 of my Excursions because they are far and away better then any Suburban. its bigger in every way, has superior HD drive trains...and i wont buy anything but a Ford because everything else in my humble opinion is an inferior product.
One of my Excursions gave its life in a head on crash that i walked away from with minor injuries. I went on the hunt the same day for its replacement.
My point is the SD cab design (designed in the late 90s mind you) does just as good of a job protecting its occupants as the other american truck brands that all at this time have updated cab designs much newer then that of the Super Duty.
09-01-2014, 01:38 PM
It was a selectable system though...not full time AWD.
