1979 CrewCab f350 Longbed Restoration/build
#1
05-26-2014, 05:22 PM
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#3
05-26-2014, 11:07 PM
Posting Guru
#4
05-27-2014, 07:29 AM
Yes I want to see some pics of this. Are you putting the body on an existing 4x4 running gear or what? Here is a little food for though on that conversion from a fellow FTE member.
There is nothing nuts and bolts about a 4wd conversion, there is not a thing that is bolt on or swappable. The engine cross members are entirely different, and this means that if an un molested truck is what you are after, it will be impossible to create one with a 2wd platform.
The 2wd will have to be lifted quite a way to clear the front diff. 2wd trucks are coil sprung and most F250 4wd's are leaf sprung. None of the suspension items are even close to the same, so you will be fabricating or modifying some original 4wd stuff to work.
Steering systems are entirely different as well, so you will be upgrading that too.
My last conversion with leafs ran me several thousand dollars, and that was with the work that I performed for free. The difference in sale values between a 4wd and 2wd are minimal, and the 4wd conversion is hardly justifiable.
Well the frames are similar, with a few exceptions. The frame horns are slightly different, and the frame widths aft of the cab are different from 73 to 77 trucks. The frame rise is also slightly different, but this is not a show stopper and does not make much difference one the fabrication begins.
Not that the important question is whether or not you will be using a coils springs or a leaf spring. It is possible to install a 78/9 radius arm and suspension. Not a big deal really, and with a standard cab this is reasonable. Not quite as easy with a super cab and or crew cab.
The 2wd frames are not cut for the shackle pivot, and they do not have the provisions for a spring hanger, but again, this is not a deal breaker. Installing a pivot is just a tedious process, accuracy is key.
Ok, so next is the transfer case. You have two choices, install a married case, and this requires the proper transmission. Might find some difficulty making or modifying an output shaft to accommodate the early C6 and a married transfer case. So then the next option is to find a divorced transfer case, and install this. You will have to make up a cross member, but then you will have to get creative with the shifter linkage. See the 4wd trans will have an adapter or tailshaft with a pivot for a typical 205 shifter. Fabrication is the only limiting factor here.
Next and final factor will be the speedo. See your speedo works from the trans, so that being the case, you will have to get a speed reference form the t-case. If you do not, the speedo will read twice as fast when you put the case in low range.
As mentioned the steering box will have to be relocated, and the truck will require some lift. That engine crossmember has limited clearance so you will be looking at some lift to even clear it. The other option would be to remove it and replace it with a tubular unit.
There is nothing nuts and bolts about a 4wd conversion, there is not a thing that is bolt on or swappable. The engine cross members are entirely different, and this means that if an un molested truck is what you are after, it will be impossible to create one with a 2wd platform.
The 2wd will have to be lifted quite a way to clear the front diff. 2wd trucks are coil sprung and most F250 4wd's are leaf sprung. None of the suspension items are even close to the same, so you will be fabricating or modifying some original 4wd stuff to work.
Steering systems are entirely different as well, so you will be upgrading that too.
My last conversion with leafs ran me several thousand dollars, and that was with the work that I performed for free. The difference in sale values between a 4wd and 2wd are minimal, and the 4wd conversion is hardly justifiable.
Well the frames are similar, with a few exceptions. The frame horns are slightly different, and the frame widths aft of the cab are different from 73 to 77 trucks. The frame rise is also slightly different, but this is not a show stopper and does not make much difference one the fabrication begins.
Not that the important question is whether or not you will be using a coils springs or a leaf spring. It is possible to install a 78/9 radius arm and suspension. Not a big deal really, and with a standard cab this is reasonable. Not quite as easy with a super cab and or crew cab.
The 2wd frames are not cut for the shackle pivot, and they do not have the provisions for a spring hanger, but again, this is not a deal breaker. Installing a pivot is just a tedious process, accuracy is key.
Ok, so next is the transfer case. You have two choices, install a married case, and this requires the proper transmission. Might find some difficulty making or modifying an output shaft to accommodate the early C6 and a married transfer case. So then the next option is to find a divorced transfer case, and install this. You will have to make up a cross member, but then you will have to get creative with the shifter linkage. See the 4wd trans will have an adapter or tailshaft with a pivot for a typical 205 shifter. Fabrication is the only limiting factor here.
Next and final factor will be the speedo. See your speedo works from the trans, so that being the case, you will have to get a speed reference form the t-case. If you do not, the speedo will read twice as fast when you put the case in low range.
As mentioned the steering box will have to be relocated, and the truck will require some lift. That engine crossmember has limited clearance so you will be looking at some lift to even clear it. The other option would be to remove it and replace it with a tubular unit.
#5
05-27-2014, 02:00 PM
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4x4 Conversion
Yes I want to see some pics of this. Are you putting the body on an existing 4x4 running gear or what? Here is a little food for though on that conversion from a fellow FTE member.
There is nothing nuts and bolts about a 4wd conversion, there is not a thing that is bolt on or swappable. The engine cross members are entirely different, and this means that if an un molested truck is what you are after, it will be impossible to create one with a 2wd platform.
The 2wd will have to be lifted quite a way to clear the front diff. 2wd trucks are coil sprung and most F250 4wd's are leaf sprung. None of the suspension items are even close to the same, so you will be fabricating or modifying some original 4wd stuff to work.
Steering systems are entirely different as well, so you will be upgrading that too.
My last conversion with leafs ran me several thousand dollars, and that was with the work that I performed for free. The difference in sale values between a 4wd and 2wd are minimal, and the 4wd conversion is hardly justifiable.
Well the frames are similar, with a few exceptions. The frame horns are slightly different, and the frame widths aft of the cab are different from 73 to 77 trucks. The frame rise is also slightly different, but this is not a show stopper and does not make much difference one the fabrication begins.
Not that the important question is whether or not you will be using a coils springs or a leaf spring. It is possible to install a 78/9 radius arm and suspension. Not a big deal really, and with a standard cab this is reasonable. Not quite as easy with a super cab and or crew cab.
The 2wd frames are not cut for the shackle pivot, and they do not have the provisions for a spring hanger, but again, this is not a deal breaker. Installing a pivot is just a tedious process, accuracy is key.
Ok, so next is the transfer case. You have two choices, install a married case, and this requires the proper transmission. Might find some difficulty making or modifying an output shaft to accommodate the early C6 and a married transfer case. So then the next option is to find a divorced transfer case, and install this. You will have to make up a cross member, but then you will have to get creative with the shifter linkage. See the 4wd trans will have an adapter or tailshaft with a pivot for a typical 205 shifter. Fabrication is the only limiting factor here.
Next and final factor will be the speedo. See your speedo works from the trans, so that being the case, you will have to get a speed reference form the t-case. If you do not, the speedo will read twice as fast when you put the case in low range.
As mentioned the steering box will have to be relocated, and the truck will require some lift. That engine crossmember has limited clearance so you will be looking at some lift to even clear it. The other option would be to remove it and replace it with a tubular unit.
There is nothing nuts and bolts about a 4wd conversion, there is not a thing that is bolt on or swappable. The engine cross members are entirely different, and this means that if an un molested truck is what you are after, it will be impossible to create one with a 2wd platform.
The 2wd will have to be lifted quite a way to clear the front diff. 2wd trucks are coil sprung and most F250 4wd's are leaf sprung. None of the suspension items are even close to the same, so you will be fabricating or modifying some original 4wd stuff to work.
Steering systems are entirely different as well, so you will be upgrading that too.
My last conversion with leafs ran me several thousand dollars, and that was with the work that I performed for free. The difference in sale values between a 4wd and 2wd are minimal, and the 4wd conversion is hardly justifiable.
Well the frames are similar, with a few exceptions. The frame horns are slightly different, and the frame widths aft of the cab are different from 73 to 77 trucks. The frame rise is also slightly different, but this is not a show stopper and does not make much difference one the fabrication begins.
Not that the important question is whether or not you will be using a coils springs or a leaf spring. It is possible to install a 78/9 radius arm and suspension. Not a big deal really, and with a standard cab this is reasonable. Not quite as easy with a super cab and or crew cab.
The 2wd frames are not cut for the shackle pivot, and they do not have the provisions for a spring hanger, but again, this is not a deal breaker. Installing a pivot is just a tedious process, accuracy is key.
Ok, so next is the transfer case. You have two choices, install a married case, and this requires the proper transmission. Might find some difficulty making or modifying an output shaft to accommodate the early C6 and a married transfer case. So then the next option is to find a divorced transfer case, and install this. You will have to make up a cross member, but then you will have to get creative with the shifter linkage. See the 4wd trans will have an adapter or tailshaft with a pivot for a typical 205 shifter. Fabrication is the only limiting factor here.
Next and final factor will be the speedo. See your speedo works from the trans, so that being the case, you will have to get a speed reference form the t-case. If you do not, the speedo will read twice as fast when you put the case in low range.
As mentioned the steering box will have to be relocated, and the truck will require some lift. That engine crossmember has limited clearance so you will be looking at some lift to even clear it. The other option would be to remove it and replace it with a tubular unit.
Thanks alot for the advice, have you done conversions like this before? I have done a bunch of research and i thought of using lifted coilsprings up front and using an 1978/79 f150 front drive axle and since the f150 4x4 used the coilsprings and traction bar, i would mimic this setup but for an f350. i dont have any measurements on these f150 front axles and i dont know the length of them or where the coil springs are mounted and if it will fit on a f350 frame. I dont know if the f150 axle (i assume they are usaully DANA 44 axles) can handle the weight of the 460 motor and the f350 frame. I am only 16 yrs. old, but i have restored a 1979 f250 crewcab shortbed 4x4 which is only 1 of 13 trucks that were made with the rear window defroster from the factory, with my dad a couple years ago and i have loved these trucks eversince. I have never seen another one like it. I am restoring this one for my first truck. If i am putting a 4-6 inch lift on my truck will i need anymore clearance for the front crossmember? if i still do need clearance do i still have to put a new crossmember up front so that the front axle fits? thanks again for the advice, it really helps. i will post pictures later today.
#6
05-27-2014, 02:49 PM
No I have not done it and no I would not do it. I would find a long bed Super Cab 4x4 running gear with a blown motor/trans or rusty body and do a body swap.
Way easier and most you might have to do is bob the bed a bit, or just swap the cab and front clip and or make a flat bed.
Yes the F150 uses coil springs and radius arms, but its a "trac bar", not a "traction bar".
Good for you to have a goal, but make it an attainable one. Other wise you will get the project blues and then ideas die.
Here is a bit more of info to think about (next thread entry).
Way easier and most you might have to do is bob the bed a bit, or just swap the cab and front clip and or make a flat bed.
Yes the F150 uses coil springs and radius arms, but its a "trac bar", not a "traction bar".
Good for you to have a goal, but make it an attainable one. Other wise you will get the project blues and then ideas die.
Here is a bit more of info to think about (next thread entry).
#7
05-27-2014, 02:51 PM
I suggest that you set a goal and stick to it, I mean that you should create a reasonable goal, and do what you can to achieve it. Not too many fellas are in the 700 hp club, and when I hear this I truly expect 500 real hp's, but let’s talk about that.
500 hp is huge compared to the whopping 120 something you are making now. I’m not ripping on the 351M, errrr, ok, maybe a little. But regardless, this thing made around 150 to 170 Hp's when it was new. A tired old "M" might make the same 30 years later. Add a big honking cam that makes power far higher than the engine is actually capable of reaching, or heads that can’t flow enough air to maximize that aftermarket carb, and you might actually make less than the factory spec. Consider that the engine is tired so it might be making 100 hp, and my original estimate was not accurate. Being an optimist, I as shooting for a high number.
You can make 1 HP per cubic inch, or at least make slightly less. Either way, you will have a mill that is still over three times the power house that the 351M ever was. Start with the 460 and never look back. Each time you upgrade you can’t count on the fact that you are one step closer to your goal, the reasonable one.
Guess this all boils down to priority. Is it a priority to complete what you have? I mean, it runs right? You decided that the priority was to build enough of a lift to clear tires large enough that your stock engine just won’t be able to turn? Sounds kind of strange when it is put like that right?
How about building a bullet proof drivetrain, that can handle anything that you throw at it, and use a reasonable tire? 37's can be a ton of fun in a stock truck with some gears and a locker. Ever drive a 1 ton equipped truck with 1 ton gear, 35 spline axles or even chromo, locker, steep gears and smaller tires like 37's? It’s a blast! Hit it with some power and one may not ever change from this.
Once the drivetrain is bullet proof, and you have installed all of the gear that will make it suitable for upgrades, now comes the bullet.
See since your drivetrain is bullet proof, you won’t ever worry about breaking it, and all of the money you save will go towards the next goal. No distractions, like broken axles or downtime. What’s next? The engine and trans. Meanwhile you are still wheeling the thing, and you are tearing all sorts of stuff up, but not the drivetrain.
So you have some fun wheeling the truck, and you are building a nice engine for it. Upgrades do not have to come right away, just a nice running 460 that will smash that little 351M. All of this is while you are still pimpin 37's.
So a little time goes by, and you have a nice bullet for the gun. A fresh 460 with early iron heads, flat tops, timing set, and a nice reasonable cam. Small carb, but that’s all you need right now. Its reliable, starts every time, runs like a champ and making over 350 Hp's easy.
That’s about a 300% increase over the old engine. Thought you were tearing it up before, now you are just getting crazy.
Time for tires. Since you already have nice 1 ton gear, and a bullet proof set of axles, you have the gears to turn a larger tire, you now set a goal for some lift and some tires that put you in a different category.
Lift it and make some mods, but the axles are still working great, engine is as nice as can be, and you are still having a blast.
This truck has seen minimal downtime, and you have been rolling it around all over the place.
What do we upgrade next? Who knows, because we’ve built a decent drivetrain, and it runs well, but we need some more puppy power, so we head to the speed shop, and up the cam, port some heads, step up the carb and maybe intake. You have already found a used intake on Craigslist, and got it for a song, and look at that, the National Dragster has a guy selling a Demon carb that looks like it has been unmolested, and it is cheap.
Kind of see where I am going here?
None of us have the pockets to build a fire breather on the first go around, and none of us have hit it out of the park on the first swing, but I am sure that every one of us would have done things a little bit differently, and some wish that we had.
Everyone can build a truck in any order they wish, but it seems to me that most build them backwards.
They lift it, put some big honking meats under it then struggle with broken parts, and have to limp a sorry engine around to try to turn the things. Backwards I say.
Gimme a nice 460, and some 1 tons that won’t break, I’ll throw in a Detroit out back, and Ill wheel it with white wall tires. Probably do as well or better than so many of those other trucks that I see on the trail. Wimpy little engine, no traction devices, we can see this because it is stuck on wet grass. Busted axle or u-joints, Oh….but it has some big ol meats and it looks nice, Can’t get out of its own way, but it looks nice.
Cracks me up............
For the reader of this I’m just throwing out some examples and some ideas. Its your rig, and in all honesty, I applaud your efforts. You do have the desire and ability. Keep that up. Don’t lose that. Only one way to gain experience my friend. Only one way.
500 hp is huge compared to the whopping 120 something you are making now. I’m not ripping on the 351M, errrr, ok, maybe a little. But regardless, this thing made around 150 to 170 Hp's when it was new. A tired old "M" might make the same 30 years later. Add a big honking cam that makes power far higher than the engine is actually capable of reaching, or heads that can’t flow enough air to maximize that aftermarket carb, and you might actually make less than the factory spec. Consider that the engine is tired so it might be making 100 hp, and my original estimate was not accurate. Being an optimist, I as shooting for a high number.
You can make 1 HP per cubic inch, or at least make slightly less. Either way, you will have a mill that is still over three times the power house that the 351M ever was. Start with the 460 and never look back. Each time you upgrade you can’t count on the fact that you are one step closer to your goal, the reasonable one.
Guess this all boils down to priority. Is it a priority to complete what you have? I mean, it runs right? You decided that the priority was to build enough of a lift to clear tires large enough that your stock engine just won’t be able to turn? Sounds kind of strange when it is put like that right?
How about building a bullet proof drivetrain, that can handle anything that you throw at it, and use a reasonable tire? 37's can be a ton of fun in a stock truck with some gears and a locker. Ever drive a 1 ton equipped truck with 1 ton gear, 35 spline axles or even chromo, locker, steep gears and smaller tires like 37's? It’s a blast! Hit it with some power and one may not ever change from this.
Once the drivetrain is bullet proof, and you have installed all of the gear that will make it suitable for upgrades, now comes the bullet.
See since your drivetrain is bullet proof, you won’t ever worry about breaking it, and all of the money you save will go towards the next goal. No distractions, like broken axles or downtime. What’s next? The engine and trans. Meanwhile you are still wheeling the thing, and you are tearing all sorts of stuff up, but not the drivetrain.
So you have some fun wheeling the truck, and you are building a nice engine for it. Upgrades do not have to come right away, just a nice running 460 that will smash that little 351M. All of this is while you are still pimpin 37's.
So a little time goes by, and you have a nice bullet for the gun. A fresh 460 with early iron heads, flat tops, timing set, and a nice reasonable cam. Small carb, but that’s all you need right now. Its reliable, starts every time, runs like a champ and making over 350 Hp's easy.
That’s about a 300% increase over the old engine. Thought you were tearing it up before, now you are just getting crazy.
Time for tires. Since you already have nice 1 ton gear, and a bullet proof set of axles, you have the gears to turn a larger tire, you now set a goal for some lift and some tires that put you in a different category.
Lift it and make some mods, but the axles are still working great, engine is as nice as can be, and you are still having a blast.
This truck has seen minimal downtime, and you have been rolling it around all over the place.
What do we upgrade next? Who knows, because we’ve built a decent drivetrain, and it runs well, but we need some more puppy power, so we head to the speed shop, and up the cam, port some heads, step up the carb and maybe intake. You have already found a used intake on Craigslist, and got it for a song, and look at that, the National Dragster has a guy selling a Demon carb that looks like it has been unmolested, and it is cheap.
Kind of see where I am going here?
None of us have the pockets to build a fire breather on the first go around, and none of us have hit it out of the park on the first swing, but I am sure that every one of us would have done things a little bit differently, and some wish that we had.
Everyone can build a truck in any order they wish, but it seems to me that most build them backwards.
They lift it, put some big honking meats under it then struggle with broken parts, and have to limp a sorry engine around to try to turn the things. Backwards I say.
Gimme a nice 460, and some 1 tons that won’t break, I’ll throw in a Detroit out back, and Ill wheel it with white wall tires. Probably do as well or better than so many of those other trucks that I see on the trail. Wimpy little engine, no traction devices, we can see this because it is stuck on wet grass. Busted axle or u-joints, Oh….but it has some big ol meats and it looks nice, Can’t get out of its own way, but it looks nice.
Cracks me up............
For the reader of this I’m just throwing out some examples and some ideas. Its your rig, and in all honesty, I applaud your efforts. You do have the desire and ability. Keep that up. Don’t lose that. Only one way to gain experience my friend. Only one way.
Trending Topics
#9
05-27-2014, 06:52 PM
#10
05-27-2014, 09:05 PM
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#11
05-27-2014, 09:07 PM
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#12
05-28-2014, 12:10 AM
Posting Guru
Looks like you have a good starting point.
Before I offer any advise, what is your intended use for the truck?
As what I would recommend for parts has a huge dependance on what you want to do with it.
Daily driver, tow rig, off road toy that's street legal, tractor pulling etc etc etc
The biggest thing BE REALISTIC! A huge cam will sound good but will you ever drive in the RPM range that a .600+ lift cam runs in.... probably not.
Do you need a D60 front, probably not.
Never "replace" anything, always UPGRADE.
Start with the brakes! It's the most important item for safety, at 35+ years old the Master Cylinders are always questionable and the rubber lines are usually swollen and deteriorating on the inside. That and the first time you loose your brakes could loose you the entire truck, if not more.
Upgrade, Hydroboost and F-350 master cylinder is hands down the best thing I've done to any vehicle I've ever owned, that's saying a LOT.
Steering, again with the safety. Besides having a 78 crew that handles better than most peoples cars is well worth the small effort and low cost.
After this then you have to deal with EVERY piece of rubber on the truck: Fuel lines, filler hoses, vacuum hoses, window seals, door seals, radiator hoses etc etc etc
While you're replacing the fuel hoses, clean and flush the tanks out, this will eliminate an untold amount of future headaches.
AND DEN, AND DEN AND DEN.....
Before I offer any advise, what is your intended use for the truck?
As what I would recommend for parts has a huge dependance on what you want to do with it.
Daily driver, tow rig, off road toy that's street legal, tractor pulling etc etc etc
The biggest thing BE REALISTIC! A huge cam will sound good but will you ever drive in the RPM range that a .600+ lift cam runs in.... probably not.
Do you need a D60 front, probably not.
Never "replace" anything, always UPGRADE.
Start with the brakes! It's the most important item for safety, at 35+ years old the Master Cylinders are always questionable and the rubber lines are usually swollen and deteriorating on the inside. That and the first time you loose your brakes could loose you the entire truck, if not more.
Upgrade, Hydroboost and F-350 master cylinder is hands down the best thing I've done to any vehicle I've ever owned, that's saying a LOT.
Steering, again with the safety. Besides having a 78 crew that handles better than most peoples cars is well worth the small effort and low cost.
After this then you have to deal with EVERY piece of rubber on the truck: Fuel lines, filler hoses, vacuum hoses, window seals, door seals, radiator hoses etc etc etc
While you're replacing the fuel hoses, clean and flush the tanks out, this will eliminate an untold amount of future headaches.
AND DEN, AND DEN AND DEN.....
#13
05-28-2014, 07:10 AM
#14
05-28-2014, 07:16 AM
This winters project 1976 highboy rolling chassis with frame vin match title $500
#15
05-28-2014, 07:30 AM
Very vice truck, with that said, think about this question. Do you NEED a 4 wheel drive or just WANT a 4 wheel drive? What is the 99% use of this truck? In the pic is it hooked to a bumper pull trailer, I believe in it current set up, it probably does that job just fine.
Why go thru the trouble and truck down time and extra $ converting to 4x4? Unless you are doing a body swap on to a already 4x4 chassis, cause that is the fastest and cheapest route IMO.
If you just want a 4x4 look, but do not really NEED one, have you considered the pre-runner set up route? They do make a lift kit, tube race bumpers ect...for 2wd. Put a locker (trac-loc or Detroit for an example) in the rearend and get on down the road very well.
Offroad Truck Parts & Car Restoration - Autofab
Just a option to consider.
Why go thru the trouble and truck down time and extra $ converting to 4x4? Unless you are doing a body swap on to a already 4x4 chassis, cause that is the fastest and cheapest route IMO.
If you just want a 4x4 look, but do not really NEED one, have you considered the pre-runner set up route? They do make a lift kit, tube race bumpers ect...for 2wd. Put a locker (trac-loc or Detroit for an example) in the rearend and get on down the road very well.
Offroad Truck Parts & Car Restoration - Autofab
Just a option to consider.