I've got an 86 F250 supercab that I'm slowly working on and more than anything I'm simply collecting parts. Once I move I'll have a nice 26 x 28 garage to work in...

I just got the complete manual trans setup with a T18 from a 351 HO. I have a fresh 393 roller cam motor with aluminum heads that just needs a cam and intake. I also have a 460 EFI with an E4OD trans. I've got the perches, but the truck has the 351 perches in it now. The 460 has 110k miles on it and has blown out a few plugs. It was a plow truck and the plugs have rusted and blown the centers out. So I have to dig those out.

The truck is mainly going to be a fun toy, semi-work truck. I've got a Mustang for when I want to be stupid fast, but I don't want it to be a turd. I'd like it to be able to tow, which it should with no problem with either of those motors.

It's got a D60 solid axle in it now with 3.55 gears. I've also got a 4.10 geared 10.25 and have setup a couple of gear sets and feel comfortable doing the front. I'll probably stick with the 3.55's for now though. Tires right now are 33's, but I may go with 35's in the future.

So... What goes in the truck? Do I find a 460 bell and run that with a carb adapter? At one point I was going to go EFI and I might still. I'd really like to get a ZF5 for it but the budget isn't there. Maybe do the 393 for now, save up the money to build the 460 and get a ZF5 for the 460?

And lastly... Gas mileage. I'd like double digits for around town driving, 12-13 would be excellent. Do you think I have any chance at that? Would the 393 be better? Roller cam, aluminum heads, etc? I also have the lightning GT40 intake for it so I could do EFI with a mustang computer. I'm thinking for efficiency that might be best.

Also, has anyone ever put a supercab body on a regular cab frame? Completely different project, but looking at my parts pile I could do it and build a flatbed or chop down the factory bed. I've seen crew cabs on a regular frame and that's pretty cool. Don't know what a SC would look like. The wheelbase is close, 133 for the RC/LB vs 138 for the SC/SB if I recall correctly. Random brain fart...

 

Your post is kind of all over the map, so I am going to address your engine question. I would personally go with the 393 roller and trans. Save and build the 460 for later. Do not rush it. The 393 will give you better mileage and will drop in now. With your 460, sell off the E4OD to fund the ZF you want. Rebuild it with quality parts, including new heads, to suit your exact desires and needs. Once you have the 460 exactly as you want it, then install it. This method allows you to utilize the truck and down more time detailing and blue printing your 460.

As for the frame swap, I have no idea.

 

Yeah, it was a brain fart day...

That makes sense. Bolt the 393 in front of the T18 and run it. Take time to look for a 460 ZF5 and rebuild the 460. Then swap the whole mess in and hopefully OD will give me the same gas mileage as the windsor with the 4spd...

In the mean time if I get the 460 done and can't find a usable ZF I can always find a bell-housing and put it in front of the T18.

Back to the frame, I'm sure it's doable, just wondered if anyone did it. It's a completely different project and it's just an idea for now - nothing may come of it.

But, here's a CC on a RC frame... From Pirate4x4.com. Supposedly a 90 Frame with 91 Cab and 80 front clip and bed.

I like the custom F150 badges... Probably not the idea Ford had in mind when they created the "custom" trim level...

 

You only need the ZF for 4x4. There are Tremec 5 and 6 speeds that will bolt up to a 460, although the first gear is not quite as low. With taller rear gears, even the 3:1 first in a t-56 can tow.

Edit: these transmissions will require custom built crossmembers and driveshafts if used. They will have more "economical" OD gears though.

 

yeah the 460 stock barely made double digits.

i dont think it would be bad looking, just is it going to be a flat bed, or a truggy bed?

393 all day, everyone has a built 460.

zf5 are not really that expensive car-part.com

that thing is cool! needs an exo and some soft springs though!


i see you have alot of posts, and i dont recall really seeing you in here before, maybe i just havent noticed, maybe you put a new pic up, or maybe your coming back to the good side of this forum, either way you seem very knowledgeable and im glad your here!

 

You rang?

Check out my truck, 90 RCLB frame, 90 SC, 84 clip.

 

You lost me a bit. I thought there was a ZF for the windsor bolt pattern and one for the 385 series. So depending on what engine I want to put it behind I would need the appropriate 4x4 version. Correct?

As for the tremec box, are you talking about the tremec 500 and 600 and the T56 that the muscle car guys are using? I know the 500/600 started as a truck trans that never actually got picked up by the OEM's, but is there a 4x4 adapter and output shaft for it?

dylansf23, I've been around for a long time here, but I come and go. I unfortunately wasn't born rich and sometimes have to put the truck toys on the back burner and when I do I usually disappear from here as well... I usually lurk in the 80-86 and the 87-96 forums almost exclusively.

Thanks for the compliments.

damarble, that's a cool looking rig you've got. I'm going to have 2 super cab bodies and I have an 87 RC F250... Actually I'm going to have the SC frame too, so once I get the toy done I'll have plenty of parts to make something. My budget and time says keep it simple, but my heart says do something crazy...

 

Let me clarify a bit. You want the ZF for a truck that has or will have 4WD. Get the 4x4 version in the beginning.

The T-5 & T-56 are sports car transmissions that can bolt to either engine with a change of bellhousing and input shaft. They also will handle the torque. But I have never seen a 4WD version of them. It may be possible to use a divorced transfer case to get 4WD, but there would be a lot of custom work involved. I was looking into a T-56 for my 81 F250, but I don't think first is low enough for my needs. The best I could find was a 3:1 first gear, but fifth was 0.75:1 and sixth was 0.50:1. Would have been great on the freeway.

 

An even better trans option exists. NV4500 5 speed. Factory equipped in both GM and Dodge trucks, behind gas and diesels, 2wd or 4wd. 5.61 1st, 3.04 2nd, and .73 OD.
Uses a separate bellhousing, and can be configured with either hydraulic or mechanical clutch actuation. Since it was fitted behind both GM and Dodge diesels, you know it can handle plenty of torque. A bit heavy, due to cast iron case and massive gear train inside, but comes it just under 200lbs dry.
They aren't that pricey either, as there are places that sell NEW units for $2K, and many of these places can assembly a complete "kit" to fit nearly ANY engine/chassis.
The Ford FE owners always complain about the lack of OD trans options, yet this trans can easily be adapted to go behind an FE. I may convert the 74 from C6 to NV4500 down the road, once the 80 is fully up and running on diesel fuel. Dad always said it needed an overdrive, but the C6 at least had the grunt to handle heavy loads, even from a standstill, on uphill grade.


Link to one source, with lots of info: New Page 1

 

Couldn't you drop the gears enough to make that final gear a .76 and the first gear lower?

 

I have a 4x4, so I would want a 4x4 trans...

I did some searching and the Tremec 5spd can't do an attached t-case. There is someone making a T56 with a t-case adapter though.

Dylan, a T18 with a 5:1 first with 4:1 rear gears is a 20:1 overall. Divide the 3:1 first of the T56 and you get a 6.65 ratio to have the same granny low of the T18. Sure, I guess you can split the difference but you're going to have to go pretty high 4.56's as a minimum, maybe 4.88's. Sure, with the double OD it'll probably work. But given the cost/labor of going that route vs getting a ZF5 it doesn't really make sense. For a 2wd toy that may tow a light trailer sure, but not for something that you really want to tow with.

Rockland Standard Gear is making a 4x4 T-56
http://www.automedia2000.com/rsg/rsgreleases.htm

 

That's amazing. I'm afraid to see the price.

 

In theory you could. Looks like from the other posts, someone is already working on it. The hard part would be finding a gearset that low. It is also difficult to shift 4 out of a direct drive gear. The gearset would probably leave fifth at 0.88:1 or something, which is slightly pointless to me.

As I have a 2WD with 3.73 Dana 60 rear, I'm going to look into a ZF or NV swap later on. The C6 is stout, but not fuel efficient.

 

I would never use the NVG tranny on anything I could bolt a ZF to, the ZF holds up better. Ask the Dodge/GM guys how often 5th gear goes out on their tranny, and then ask 460/diesel guys how often something happens to a ZF. And if a 460 or a diesel can't hurt it, no small block ever will. Not even a built 393.

As for the 390, I seem to remember someone saying once that a 460-spec ZF could be adapted, don't remember the details. I will try to find more info on this.

To the OP: find a small-block spec ZF, and install with the 393(or just use the T-18, since you have it). Build your 460 the way you want, find a big-block ZF, and swap that in when ready. Gives you a running truck for now with enough power for most truck stuff, with an unstoppable engine/tranny combo later on.

Back in high school, had an 85 F250 2wd SCLB, 460/T-19/4.10 gears. Rebuilt the 460, desmogging as I went, dual exhaust, RV cam, 750 Edelbrock carb. Swapped in a ZF 5-speed as it went back together. Towed 16000 lbs several times, never had a problem. 12 mpg highway empty. Your mileage, and results, may vary, I didn't really build the engine too much, mostly stock except the desmogging mods and carb, dual exhaust was run off stock manifolds because my budget said headers or parts truck for the 5-speed, I went for the 5-speed as it was from an 87 (still had a mechanical speedo sender). Miss that truck... And now you know why I want another one!

 

Ironically, after I looked at your link, I immediately got to share the info with a fellow soldier who has a Cummins equipped Dodge. I might consider this down the line, bu I worry I would have to replace the headers and exhaust that I spent good money on.

Although, having that 4Lo to pull really heavy loads would be awesome.

So have you made a decision on the power train yet?