Let me start off by saying that this is my fifth heavy duty light truck, and my third F-250. All of those have been serviced at the same Ford dealer (once out of warranty for the non-Fords), plus countless toy vehicles and a company leased truck that trades in at 100k every 18 months. Love the dealer for the service department. All long timers and car nuts. The sales department sucks and after the last few visits, decided never to buy there again. Anyway...

Bought the latest F-250 in October. It had 139k on the clock. Bought it from another ford dealer a few towns away as a consignment. Construction company's supervisor truck. Most of the miles were on gravel roads (grain silos) so there is some surface rust on the frame, but body is perfect, bed only has a few scratches and the interior was great once I scraped the mud out of it. It had a few off sounds when I got it so I took it to my dealer and told them to fix whatever is wrong with it.

They got rid of the ticking (cracked manifold), replaced the hitch plug, replaced the passenger door handle, said they cured a vibration from the heat shield over the trans (6spd man) by removing gravel from the heat shield, and serviced the rest of the truck. But, when I picked the truck up, the vibration remained (tinny heat shield sound). No big deal as I only drive it once every couple weeks. [This trip: $930]

So, I took it back about a month ago before I went on a 2k plus mile trip. They recommended a full front brake job, coolant flush, belts, fuel filter, wiper blades, installed my upfitter switches, and checked the heat shield again and said it was actually the cats causing the sound, not the heat shield. They said that the only thing they could do to fix the cats was replace the whole Y-pipe and it would be really expensive. I told them to do everything but the cats and I will see if I can live with it. [This trip: $680]

Two weeks ago, I called them to get the parts and labor total to fix the rattling sound of my cats. They quoted me $668. I said let's do this. The Y-pipe looked pretty rusty and this is the oldest of my vehicles and I wanted to get rid of the noise so I can ride in comfort like I do with the newer ones. The parking brake also needs to be adjusted. They know I travel Monday to Friday so they tell me that if I drop it off that weekend, they will have it done when I get back. When I got back in to town on Friday afternoon I saw it was parked in their back lot where they put cars they are done with. I stopped in and asked if it was done. He said it was and I asked if the rattle was gone. He said it is gone. I paid him and left. [This trip: $730]

Because the dealer is only a few blocks from my house, I drove home and walked back there in the morning to get my truck. I didn't drive 30 feet before I heard the rattle again. I drove home and crawled underneath the truck only to see that two new cats have been welded in to the Y-pipe. Shiny new silver cats welded into my old rusty Y-pipe with the black weld burns still visible. I was ready to jump out of my skin.

I went back on Monday morning about ten minutes before the shop opens. The service manager and the service writer were the only ones there. The service writer was the one that told me that the only thing they can do to fix the cats was to replace the Y-pipe as a unit. The service manager was the one that answered the phone when I asked for a quote to replace the cats (I did mention that I was told that Y-pipe was the only option) and he gave me the quote of $668. They both said that the Y-pipe was going to be $1300 (my quick scan of ford parts website says that they were looking at a whole exhaust system for that price), so they called a local exhaust shop to have them weld them in to save me some money. I made the service manager go for a ride with me and he saw and heard that the rattle appears to be between 2k and 3.5k, only while moving, and even he says it sounds tinny like a heat shield.

So, not only did they not perform the repair that I approved, but it did not solve the problem. I paid them by check and it cleared on Monday. They said they would work on it this week to find the rattle and get it taken care of. I have a GPS tracking device on the truck (I have had a couple go missing) and I see them driving it a few blocks on several trips each day this week. They are in a residential area so I believe they are road testing it as opposed to running errands.

In the end, I have paid a total of $768 (itemized) to get rid of a rattle that still exists. I think it is obvious that the cats were not the problem. I know that they paid someone else to replace the cats. But, that was done at their suggestion. Also, I paid once to have them remove gravel from the heat shield, and paid once to determine that the gravel suggestion was wrong and it was the cats.

Any suggestions as to what I should do when I go back tomorrow?

 

You go back and have a discussion with the service manager. If that doesn't work, you escalate to the GM.

On a side note, an discussion of lawyers and offering of legal advice will get this thread closed.

 

Get a second opinion on the noises at a real exhaust shop, if you can find one in your area. Don't go to a chain joint (Midas-type places), unless you have a very high degree of confidence in them.

 

I hate to be the one to say this....but at 139k miles...you are going to sink a lot of money if you want to eliminate every ting, rattle, creek, chirp, hikumakup noise in the truck. it can be done, but as you are finding out...its thru the process of elimination and not sound logic.

I doubt that your manifold was cracked and that cracked manifold was the cuase of tick noises. sure replace the manifold and the tick is gone...but that's probally just because the exhaust gaskets were replaced as part of the process.

sounds like you know enough about mechanics to know you are being taken for a ride by the process......maybe if you had the time...you would be better served by doing some of the work yourself.

 

speakerfritz, I am not really that ****. The tick was very noticeable and it actually was a cracked manifold. I dropped in that week while they were working on it.

The problem is that I am generally on the road for work Monday through Friday. So, my free time is somewhat limited. The other reason that I don't mind paying for them to do the work is that I bought the truck for about $8k below book, knowing that I would have to put some money into it.

 

Redford, I wasn't so much looking for legal advice but what others have been through when paying for unnecessary repairs. But, I will keep that in mind.

 

UPDATE...

I just picked up the truck. The service manager told me that there was a bent heat shield that they just had to bend back. I said that's great that it was something simple. I then asked what we were going to do about the $700 that I spent on cats that I didn't need. He says there is nothing that can be done about that, if his technician says it needed new cats, it needed new cats. But, the cats didn't fix the problem, it sounded exactly the same, I replied. He just smiled and said "Sorry".

This is a small town Ford dealer and the owner's office is 50 feet from the service department. So, I went and talked to him. As I explained the story to him he just got a disgusted look on his face and shook his head every time I mentioned a mistake the shop made. He apologized profusely and said that they are having a managers meeting at 5pm today and he'd like to talk it over with them and find out how this happened. He said he will call me on Monday morning.

Hindsight being what it is, I should have asked him to go with me back to the garage to speak to the service manager and service writer.

I will have to see what his response is on Monday, but I think a 20 year relationship is over.

 

I give you credit for keeping your cool about the situation! I hate dealing with dealerships outside of warranty work. The problem is there is way too many people involved in the process. Service writers, service techs and service mangers. IMO it's too many hands involved in a simple process!

 

Wow. It really surprises me that they misdiagnosed your catalytic converters. The fact that they paid an outside shop to do the work means they probably didn't make a whole lot on the deal, so I suspect the tech that did the original diagnosis didn't know what he was doing.

From the sounds of it you're playing this out with a level head. The service manager is wrong to refuse to do anything about the rattle, but perhaps the owner will take care of things for you. If he's a businessman who doesn't suffer from shortsightedness he will eat the cost of the cats, retrain the technician, and retain your business in the future.

 

My moms Explorer got rear ended a few months ago which I handled for her. The body shop was one screw up after another.(had to be taken back two times) I know what you are dealing with. It is primarily a problem with the tech doing the work followed by management not making sure the tech is doing the job right.

You pay good money and you still often cannot get decent work done. Parts changers, stupidity and laziness is rampant. It is why I now do everything I can do myself, don't trust or want the hassle of dealing with someone else. I have been burned in the past.

Broken exhaust heat shields are are VERY common. I cut all the remaining heat shields off my truck a couple years after I bought it new. I don't drive a lot in tall dry grass so fire is not a concern for me. I don't doubt you had a cracked manifold also, fairly common on some engines/models.

If I were you I would try to find another shop to do the work on your truck if you cannot yourself. It does not have to be the Ford dealer either. The labor rates the dealer charges are far more than what they are worth IMO.

 

My heat shield on my y-pipe was rattling.....i put a hose clamp around it and it got rid of the rattle.

 

Thanks for the input, guys.

I am kind of torn as to what I want, or expect, them to do about their mistake.

On one hand, they misdiagnosed the problem. That much is obvious. I shouldn't have to pay for their mistake. They stated (and printed out) that to cure my problem, my cats need to be replaced. The cats were replaced, but the problem was not cured. I paid them for a service that I did not receive (multiple times).

On the other hand, those cats have been on my truck for 6 years and 142k miles. Not only were they well-used, but there is a bulletin to replace them out of warranty up to 120k at no charge. So, they are known to ford to be somewhat problematic, or not last as long as intended. So, is my truck "better", for having new cats installed? Probably. But, did I need to replace them now? Probably not.

Obviously, I will have to hear what the owner has to say when (if) he calls me on Monday. But, at the moment, I am thinking this...

If they offer to refund the total amount that I spent on replacing the cats (~$700), they will keep me as a happy customer.

If they offer to refund everything but the value of the cats (~$400), I will be less happy and I will find a new shop to do business with.

If the owner says the same thing as the service manager, then I will use the nuclear option that we are not allowed to discuss here, and I will find a new shop to do business with.

That seems more than fair, right?

 

Update, in case anyone is interested in my little story...

I spoke with the owner of the dealership a couple times today. We worked out a partial refund that we were both satisfied with. But, that is not the reason that I will not be visiting this dealer ever again.

My hindsight was not only 20/20, but it was psychic!

The owner explained to me that "...just as the service manager told you, the catalytic converters were not the only things rattling. There was more than one problem with your truck causing rattling sounds. So, if you had allowed us to keep the truck and look for what else was causing the sounds, we would have found the heat shield that also needed to be adjusted. But, you chose to take it home before we could locate the other problem."

What. The. F....

I asked him if that was what the service manager told him. He said that yes, the service manager told him that he explained to me that replacing the cats got rid of some of the rattle, but not all of it. And, that I told him that that is good enough, paid my bill, and left with the keys. He also said that the service manager told him that he explained this to me again when I returned the following Monday upset for no apparent reason. He went on to say that they have already comped the time that they spent last week finding and repairing the bent heat shield.

I've known this man since I was 15 years old. His shop worked on my first car. A Firebird even. I was absolutely blown away. I asked him if he doesn't find it a bit odd that a customer that he has had for 20 years makes his first complaint, about a service manager that has been there less than a year, and their two stories about what happened are completely different. He said "[my name], I don't know what to say about that. I truly apologize for what happened, but I have to trust the guys I have working for me." I thanked him for his time. He wished me a good day. And that was it.

If the service manager was willing to lie to his own boss about a repair job, what would stop him from lying to a customer?

Kinda sad, really.