Hello,

I have pretty much decided that I am going to upgrade WD hitch to the propride P3 WD hitch because I have a lot of trailer sway when towing my TT. I have a concern, and am wondering if anyone is using the following combination:

1. 2001 F250 superduty 4x4 V10 extend cab
2. 2012 Jayco 32BHDS Dry wieght 7675#, Gross vehicle wt 10,200#, dry tongue wt 1050#

My concern is this, by adding the Propride hitch i am adding to the tongue weight from somewhere between 105-280# by adding the hitch (depending on which source sited). If I am adding the full 280# to the 1050# dry tongue weight, I would exceed the max hitch capacity of 1250# tongue weight of the hitch of my truck.

Are my concerns valid? Is anyone running this combination (or similar trailer wieghts) with the propride or hensley arrow hitch? What are your thoughts?

Thanks,

TRHOD121

 

Nice. I have a Hensley Arrow. Last year used a 2002 v10 crewcab to tow it. Took it to the scales...

Trailer was 8620
Truck was 7080
Total was 15700

Tongues weight was 1120

I think the weight distribution part of the hitch relives some of that tongue weight and pushes it forward to the rear axle.

You cant go by those numbers. Need to get to CAT scale and weigh it once its loaded. Then load camper differently if you need to adjust it.

That hitch is sweet

 

certainly a valid concern.

I ran a calc for you with far too many assumptions to be accurate, but it looks like you may be in the ballpark and might be OK.

i assumed a wheel base of 156", a rear overhang of 53", a tongue weight of 1851, and a 240 inch distance from the ball to the center of the trailer axle group of 240"

further, i assumed what i would call a "neutral" weight distribution where there is zero change in the front axle weight due to tongue weight. that is to say, that the bars are set such that the rear axle of the truck will carry 100% of the tongue weight.

with those numbers, it looks like you will be transferring 548lbs from the tongue back to the trailer axles.
so 1851-548=1303 .... so you are in the ball park with my SWAG.

post up more accurate numbers and i'll run them again for you and see where you are.

or, feel free to play with the attachment, which is a spreadsheet i wrote just for this type of thing. It's a good tool, IMO, but i wouldn't use it to replace a scale.

 

Thanks for the responses. I have lost a lot of sleep trying to decide on a different hitch, especially to drop approx $2K into one. But I know it will be $$ well spent if it helps increase my controll over the trailer sway. Then I had the slap in the face of realizing that the addition of the hitch wieght could throw me over the max rated tongue weight of the F-250.

Mike,

That is a cool spreadsheet you created there. I'm going to try and do a little learning using that when I get home tonight. You are correct on the 156" wheelbase on the F-250, and I have the stock hitch, if that helps with the distance from ball to rear axle. The TT is at the dealer getting a warranty work done, so I can't get that measurement for you and I don't see that measurement on the spec sheet I have.

So basically, If I add the Propride hitch at a weight of, lets say 280#. Because of the distribution of weight on the trailer axles, truck rear axle, and truck front axle I will not be adding an additional 280# to the tongue weight. Is that corrrect??

The one option I have is to upgrade to a class V hitch on the truck, which should eliminate my concern, but at this point I am not ready to shell out another $300-500 for that. But, I am doing this for safety which I really can't put a price on, right??

Thanks again for helping a brother learn something new.

 

When figuring tongue weight always use the wet weight of the TT or 5er. GVW of the TT or 5er.

No one is ever dry after they are sold.

 

agree with senix!

i forgot to say that the numbers presented only represent the dry weight. you will likely be over that by a fair margin.

without all the numbers, it's impossible to have a good "guess", but i'd venture to say that you are, at best, going to be riding the bubble. and as said, there are a fair number of variables that could make the numbers presented "less than accurate" including how good you are at setting up your WD hitch, and how you choose to do it. some apply more weight up front that i "assumed" in my spreadsheet, which is fine, but it will change the numbers significantly.

i would feel safe adding the weight of the hitch in your "hitch weight" calculation. it is, after all, a weight that the hitch will have to bear directly. but to answer your question more specifically, yes, the weight of that hitch will get distributed to all of the axles of the vehicle (truck/trailer) through the WD forces on the hitch.

also, the spreadsheet is not exactly accurate, as the calculation for the "hitch weight transferred to trailer axles" should actually be iterative, so it should calculate the hitch weight over and over again intill it zeros in on a more exact number for the new hitch weight and the amount of weight trasferred to each axle group ... BUT, as i said, it is a starting point that can be used to see if you are even in the right ballpark, and for that i think it is good enough.

i'm a number nerd .... so spreadsheets turn me on

at the end of the day, a receiver upgrade is a cheap measure of safety if you are going to be riding the bubble.

 

We used the propride 3P on our excursion with a LONG Open Range TT - handled like a dream and the proprides are actually easy to set up....

You could make it very complicated with all the calculations, etc...
OR just measure your tow vehicles wheel well height unloaded and
then adjust the loaded height to closely match the unloaded height and you are good !!!

I've moved on from the Ex and the TT, but somehow never got rid of the 3P - it was too nice to just give it away with the TT...
but is taking up space in the garage if you are near Texas

 

so i just ran another calc.

i changed the rear overhang to 58, to include the 52" overhang for the truck plus another 6" for the ball mount.

i took your 10,200 maximum trailer weight times 14% (same proportion as your dry hitch weight to dry trailer weight ratio) plus the weight of your new hitch and got 1,708 lbs hitch weight.

jayco listed the "wheel base" on that railer at 276".

those numbers spit back that 492lbs will be transferred from the hitch to the trailer axles. which puts your hitch "true" weight at 1,216. (right on the bubble, as you suspected)

again, this assumes what i call a "neutral" setting on the tension bars. YMMV.
and again, it's nothing more than a SWAG.

BUT

i'd say that you are probably at least safe to haul it to a scale and see what you actually have. then you can decide what to do. it would be possible to tighen up the hitch weights and transfer more weight to the trailer and front axle and that number may come down quite a bit.

for example, adding an additional 10% to the torque applied at the hitch would increase the weight on the front axle by 64lbs and increase the weight shifted to the trailer axles to 541lbs, getting you closer to being under your 1200lbs hitch weight.

As i said though, only a scale will tell you what you actually have.

 

OH NO, I'VE GONE CROSS EYED!!!!!! (in an Austin Powers voice)

Actually, I am picking up what you are putting down here with the numbers I never had to do anything like this with my last trailer. I just adjusted the WD hitch up and down till it trailered good. So if you don't mind, I am going to pimp you for some additional answers.

So let's talk about the scales a minute. So I go to the scale, and I would want to get what all wieghts???

I would assume the following:

1. TV/TT combined total wieght.
2. TV weight (only)
4. Trailer rear wheel wieght (hooked up to TV)
3. Trailer weight (tires and jack on the scale)
4. Trailer weight (tires on scale only)
5. Trailer wieght (tongue ONLY)

Does that sound about right? Or are there other weights I need?

So from here, how do I proceed to figure my wieghts and set up?. I have an idea, but am kind of fuzzy.

 

going to the scales....I recommend your local truck stop. Cat Scales.

they will give you steer, drive , trailer and the grand total. All for about 10 bucks.

I may even pay to get the truck with all it tools, fuel and passengers on the scale without the TT as well.

 

i think what i would do is load the TV and TT up like you are going camping. water, propane, bedding, beer, whatever, and the pickup full of fuel.

hook up the best you can and go to the scale.

ideally, you will want the empty weight of the truck, and broken down by axles is the best.

so when you get there, pull on the scale with the TT hooked up the best you know how. then get the front axle, rear axle, and trailer axle weights.

then unhook, remove hitch, and weigh the truck without the TT.

then add the front and rear axle weights from the empty truck. that is your empty truck weight.

then add teh front and rear axle weights from the truck with the TT hooked up. that is the the weight of the truck plus the tongue weight of the TT.

so your tongue weight is the difference between the truck weight hooked up and the truck weight empty. that is how much weight your hitch is supporting.

then you want to compare your empty front axle weight to your loaded front axle weight. you want to make sure that your loaded front axle weight is AT LEAST as much as your empty front axle weight. This assures that you are not unloading the front axle weight with the tongue weight of the TT. that is to say you have the bars tight enough.

so if you find out that you are over your 1200 lb tongue weight rating, then tighten up your WD bars some more and re-weigh. you *should* see a different total loaded truck weight, and it *should* go down slightly. this will ADD weight to your front axle. so you need to make sure you dont get the bars so tight that you put more weight on the front axle than the rear, and that you don't go over your Front GAWR on your door tag. you should have plenty of room on your FGAWR to put some weight on the front axle, and this might squeak you by to get under your 1200 lb tongue weight limit. i would think you'd have good stability if you have the bars tight enough to add weight to the front axle.

also keep an eye on the weight on the trailer axles. just make sure you aren't over your axle ratings for the TT.

it's kind of a bad plan to "squeak by" like this, but there's really nothing wrong with it either, if you can make it work.

or ... you can upgrade your hitch and go back to your "hook up and go" method you are used to

clear as mud?

how am I doing, Scott? you've got a ton more experience with this than I do ... i just have an aptitued for logical thinking and spreadsheets

 

You got it all covered

 

my buddy gave me this info..

If you want to use the scales data to determine tongue weight, and if you want to get the maximum information about your TV/TT combination and how well your weight distribution system is working, you need data from three weighings. Second and third weighings usually are done at a lower cost.


And, you need to find a scales with at least three separate weighing platforms so you can separately measure all three axle loads at the same time. Most, perhaps all, CAT scales have this feature.


If you need any help in interpreting the scales results, just post the numbers. There are several ORF members who can help with the calculations.


First, the TV and TT should be loaded approximately as they would be for camping.


Second, the weight distribution system should be adjusted as it normally would be for towing.


Then, I would do the following:


Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"


Then, while in same position on scales, take

Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated (WD bars unloaded, but hanging in place)

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"


Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take

Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"


From the above values, you can calculate:


TV weight = FA3 + RA3


Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)

{should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct}


TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight


Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)


Load Transferred to TT Axles

when WD System is Activated = TT1 - TT2


This procedure should get you on and off the scales fairly quickly and still provide all the data you need.

 

Jeeze you guys are making it a 4th year college Calculus Equation

Yes, to guesstimate it, you have a lot of variables, but ALL the variables allowed will still only give you an approximation (or a swag as stated)

ok - here's your truck specs --> https://www.google.com/search?q=2001+ford+250+trailer+towing&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb#channel=sb&q=2001+ford+f250+trailer+t owing

here's a scale to weigh whatever you have for $10 --> CAT Scale Locator | CAT Scale read up on all of it on that website too...

but basically, they will give you 3 weights - steer, drive, and trailer...

If you only have the truck I would be willing to bet you are at about 6-7000 lbs for the truck... 4k front and 3k rear...

truck and rv loaded - swag guess of 4.5k front and 6k rear and 9k on the trailer (wet and loaded)

keep weights under for the fgawr and rgawr and gvwr and gcwr to be 'safe'...

 

everything below is all true.

however, you can do it with only two scale tickets. i see no need to know or care what the "undistributed" tongue weight of the TT is. you already know you are on the bubble, so why bother. what you need to know is if you can get the true tongue weight after weight distribution under your 1,200 lbs limit.

your tongue weight after distribution would be:
(FA1 + RA1) - (FA3 + RA3)

i'd skip the second weighing. it provides a bunch of information, but some of it you really don't care about. you already know that you are on the bubble, or you wouldn't have asked the question. you also really don't care how much weight is transferred to the trailer axles, so long as your scale ticket doesn't show you being over weight on the trailer axles.

the 3 weight tickets does provide the maximum amount of information, as he said, but some of it is superfluous.

my guess is, that you are going to be pulling on and off the scales several times to dial it in anyway, and all you really care about is how it sits with everything loaded up, hooked up, and distributed.