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New Pan Gasket Leaking

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Old 03-26-2014, 12:23 AM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Question New Pan Gasket Leaking

I installed a new pan gasket on my 300 yesterday. I managed to remove the pan completely by placing blocks of wood underneath the engine mounts and then jacking the transmission up less than a 1/4 of an inch. I removed the pan, gasket material, and cleaned the block. To my knowledge, I installed the gasket correctly.

Everything was torqued down, every bolt. I started from both ends of the pan and worked my way toward the center. I installed everything back, and then let the truck run for a few minutes. I went to check for leaks and noticed oil seeping down from one of the bolts near the end of the pan, transmission side. The bolt was tight, but perhaps the gasket wasn't aligned correctly, though I don't know how this could have happened.

Tomorrow I was thinking of loosening all the bolts to see if I could re-align the gasket. The only reason that I think this is because the lip of the gasket near that bolt is not exposed, so I wonder if that is what is causing the leak. Does anyone have any recommendations as to why this leaking. The felpro gasket was used.

Thank you.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:20 AM
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BigBlockF350 BigBlockF350 is offline
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Did you use anything other than the gasket? I like to use RTV around the corners on oil pans. Also, I've found that Indian Head gasket sealer works really well to stick a gasket to an oil pan before install.

You'll probably have to take the pan and gasket out and do it again if the leak is very significant at all. Make sure you figure out the correct bolt tightening sequence for the 300.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aclaybor View Post
Everything was torqued down, every bolt. I started from both ends of the pan and worked my way toward the center. I installed everything back, and then let the truck run for a few minutes. I went to check for leaks and noticed oil seeping down from one of the bolts near the end of the pan, transmission side. The bolt was tight, but perhaps the gasket wasn't aligned correctly, though I don't know how this could have happened.
Every gasket I've seen either has a specific sequence to tighten the bolts in, OR you just start from the inside bolts and work your way out. I think you mighta done that bassackwards.

What is the gasket made of?
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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You should see the blue lips of the gasket pointing upwards. Little vertical barriers, i suppose.

I found the toughest part of the install was insuring the gasket went in properly at the rear of the pan nearest the rear main seal. In that spot, two little points on the upper side of the gasket have to go inside of the block. If that's where you're leaking, that could be the issue.

Just an FYI, I found some oil leaking in the front of the pan near the crank pulley, and immediately suspected the brand new felpro i installed in November. turns out it's a very very slow leak from the timing cover. But it sure looked like a botched oil pan job.

EDIT: Also, I found the torque specs to be WAY too tight. I tightened each bolt by feel and have had no leaks. It's possible you overtorqued.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:38 AM
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Are you sure the leak isn't from the pushrod cover?
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:25 PM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Originally Posted by BigBlockF350 View Post
Did you use anything other than the gasket? I like to use RTV around the corners on oil pans. Also, I've found that Indian Head gasket sealer works really well to stick a gasket to an oil pan before install.

You'll probably have to take the pan and gasket out and do it again if the leak is very significant at all. Make sure you figure out the correct bolt tightening sequence for the 300.

I was considering just going in half-assed to get the gasket aligned again, but what you said sounds like a better plan.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:27 PM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Originally Posted by dixie460 View Post
Every gasket I've seen either has a specific sequence to tighten the bolts in, OR you just start from the inside bolts and work your way out. I think you mighta done that bassackwards.

What is the gasket made of?

I want to say that gasket was pre-molded rubber or silicone. It was called PermaDry?
The gasket was made by Felpro.

I'm going to look around for a tightening sequence.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:35 PM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latechbanjo View Post
You should see the blue lips of the gasket pointing upwards. Little vertical barriers, i suppose.

I found the toughest part of the install was insuring the gasket went in properly at the rear of the pan nearest the rear main seal. In that spot, two little points on the upper side of the gasket have to go inside of the block. If that's where you're leaking, that could be the issue.

Just an FYI, I found some oil leaking in the front of the pan near the crank pulley, and immediately suspected the brand new felpro i installed in November. turns out it's a very very slow leak from the timing cover. But it sure looked like a botched oil pan job.

EDIT: Also, I found the torque specs to be WAY too tight. I tightened each bolt by feel and have had no leaks. It's possible you overtorqued.
I happen to like your post the most, no offense to the other users.

I made sure that the bolts were snug, probably spark plug tight. I tightened them to feel, but it could have been too much. Coincidentally, that is where the pan is leaking from--the rear of the engine, near the seal.

Do you happen to remember which torque sequence you used? I remember tightening from the middle, then outwards.

Hmmmph, the timing cover is on my list of repairs too, as well as valve cover, but before all that I'm going to find out why the trans slips.

Thank you for the advice. If I can find a schematic for the torque sequence, I will use that. As far as torque goes, the gasket has torque limiters to prevent over- torquing; would this prevent you from over-tightening?
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:41 PM
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I prefer using a 1/4 drive, inch-pound torque wrench. When using the 3/8 drive, ft. lb wrench, I consistently had seepage at spots around the pan.

108 inch-lbs was as far as I went.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:15 PM
AnneK AnneK is offline
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Did you say you installed a used felpro gasket? Gaskets are something that should always be purchased new, so if that is the case, you need to get a new gasket and try again. Also before installing a new gasket you need to make sure that the mating surfaces on both the pan and engine/trans side are clean and free of any old gasket or other foreign material, which can mean scraping with a razor blade or whatever you can get to fit in there. Old gasket pieces, sludge or other debris will cause a leak.

It is true that vehicles have tightening sequences for pan gaskets, and if you understand why it will help you to install it properly. The purpose of the sequence is to pull the pan up evenly so the gasket doesn't wrinkle or push out in places. Generally I hand tighten all the bolts to support the pan to the point where the gasket barely contacts the pan and the motor or trans. Then I tighten the 4 corners in an x pattern and continue making smaller xes until the pan is done. Then go around and do it again. Run the vehicle to operating temperature, shut it off and sometimes it has to be tightened one more time. For example it would look something like this:

1 5 9 11 7 3
16 13
14 15
4 8 12 10 6 2

For a pan that is more square than rectangular I would do something like this:

1 9 7 11 3
16 13
6 5
14 15
4 12 8 10 2

Seepage can also be caused by warpage of the mating surfaces though, in which case going to an RTV gasket rather than a preformed gasket could solve the problem. If you do it make sure you use the red hi temp RTV, coat the entire mating surface of the pan evenly and install it the same way with a dot of RTV on each of the bolt to seal around the threads. Again go around once by hand and twice with a wrench to make sure the bolts are properly torqued and let it sit for 24 hours before filling it. Then fill it, run it, torque it one last time and it should be done. It's a pain, but I've gotten a lot of older vehicles with problem gaskets to seal that way.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:52 PM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneK View Post
Did you say you installed a used felpro gasket? Gaskets are something that should always be purchased new, so if that is the case, you need to get a new gasket and try again. Also before installing a new gasket you need to make sure that the mating surfaces on both the pan and engine/trans side are clean and free of any old gasket or other foreign material, which can mean scraping with a razor blade or whatever you can get to fit in there. Old gasket pieces, sludge or other debris will cause a leak.

It is true that vehicles have tightening sequences for pan gaskets, and if you understand why it will help you to install it properly. The purpose of the sequence is to pull the pan up evenly so the gasket doesn't wrinkle or push out in places. Generally I hand tighten all the bolts to support the pan to the point where the gasket barely contacts the pan and the motor or trans. Then I tighten the 4 corners in an x pattern and continue making smaller xes until the pan is done. Then go around and do it again. Run the vehicle to operating temperature, shut it off and sometimes it has to be tightened one more time. For example it would look something like this:

1 5 9 11 7 3
16 13
14 15
4 8 12 10 6 2

For a pan that is more square than rectangular I would do something like this:

1 9 7 11 3
16 13
6 5
14 15
4 12 8 10 2

Seepage can also be caused by warpage of the mating surfaces though, in which case going to an RTV gasket rather than a preformed gasket could solve the problem. If you do it make sure you use the red hi temp RTV, coat the entire mating surface of the pan evenly and install it the same way with a dot of RTV on each of the bolt to seal around the threads. Again go around once by hand and twice with a wrench to make sure the bolts are properly torqued and let it sit for 24 hours before filling it. Then fill it, run it, torque it one last time and it should be done. It's a pain, but I've gotten a lot of older vehicles with problem gaskets to seal that way.

I'm about to go tackle this job again in a minute. You guys are suggesting that I use a 1/4in. ratchet and to purchase a new gasket?

I'm going out to buy a new FELPRO gasket set; I need to anyway, because I lost the snap-ups that I used yesterday.

I'm going to do my best to tighten the bolts in a sequence.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:09 PM
AnneK AnneK is offline
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Get a new gasket for sure. As far as the ratchet size, the smaller the better since you don't need a lot of torque here and holding a big, heavy ratchet up is just exhausting anyway. If you don't have a lot of experience or you're one of those people that tends to overtorque things, use a torque wrench. It is important that the bolts be evenly torqued and not over or under torqued for the gasket to form an even seal. When using a torque wrench it is important to use as few extensions as possible since extensions throw off the reading. Kind of like power to the wheels and power to the ground - not all of the torque you put on the wrench makes it to the socket at the end of the extensions. This is particularly true of universals. If you have to use extensions, try to select one that you can use for all of the bolts to eliminate variance so even if your reading is off, it is off the same amount all the way around.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:25 PM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneK View Post
Get a new gasket for sure. As far as the ratchet size, the smaller the better since you don't need a lot of torque here and holding a big, heavy ratchet up is just exhausting anyway. If you don't have a lot of experience or you're one of those people that tends to overtorque things, use a torque wrench. It is important that the bolts be evenly torqued and not over or under torqued for the gasket to form an even seal. When using a torque wrench it is important to use as few extensions as possible since extensions throw off the reading. Kind of like power to the wheels and power to the ground - not all of the torque you put on the wrench makes it to the socket at the end of the extensions. This is particularly true of universals. If you have to use extensions, try to select one that you can use for all of the bolts to eliminate variance so even if your reading is off, it is off the same amount all the way around.

You are a lifesave. I bought a new gasket and an inch-pound torque wrench. I'm getting ready to start on it now.

Once I go to tighten the bolts, do you recommend that I work my way from the center, toward the ends of the pan?
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:41 PM
aclaybor aclaybor is offline
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Well, I found the problem. This is what happens when you only measure once. I'm having to cut twice.

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Old 04-06-2015, 12:43 AM
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Well, I found the problem. This is what happens when you only measure once. I'm having to cut twice.

Yep. That'll do it.
Scott
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