Officially the money loaned to Ford was part of a government program to help fund R&I for electric cars. Money was also loaned to Nissan, Tesla and Fisker under this program. You are correct that it has not been repayed yet.

 

So long as the money gets repayed the intent of the loan is preserved.

Global business reality is that business and government must and will work together to COMPETE or those who do will beat them.

As to HD trucks, they either function to make a profit or they do not. They work well in fleet use or they do not.

If I look for one I'll ask fleet mechanics what they'd buy since fleet users beat their trucks like rented mules.

 

Why is the 5.9 Cummins the most popular diesel swap into an old Ford? Because the Dodge the Cummins was in fell apart around it, but the old Ford is still worth putting the effort into.

 

thats the truth my 2011 150 blew pretty much evrey thing and i went back and bought 2 MORE

 

no, it is because a 5.9 is like a 350 chevy. even a blind retarded one handed monkey can make one run.

 

Reps sent for that comment alone. Too funny about the 350 chevy.

 

Yes. At least in New England. I see MANY more Ram cummins in the
commercial market.

 

here in Joisey you still see 5 Fords for one of the other brands.

 

Oh you guys….you just crack me up. Why is the 5.9 Cummins the most popular diesel to swap? It's because it's better. It's a much simpler design, it's easy to service, it's anvil tough, it's simple and cheaper to turn up and it enjoys huge after market support. Ford went thru what? Four different diesels to get it right? Yet the Cummins is still beating them with that same basic 30 yr old design. Who really bothers to do a swap using a 6.9-7.3 IDI or a 7.3 PS, or a 6.0 PS, or a 6.7 PS….. no one! They all choose the Cummins. And get this, even Ford had spec'ed out their medium duty trucks with the 6BT, instead of their own offerings.

Sure Dog, you could argue that a Dodge falls apart around the engine. The Ford would too, if it came with an engine that has a service life expectancy thats over 350K. Of course you may feel thats it worth the effort to install a Cummins into a Ford….it's too bad that Ford didn't themselves feel that way, otherwise they could have had the contract with Cummins, instead of Chrysler….In fact they still can. Cummins isn't exclusive to any manufacturer. They currently provide another diesel to Nissan for use in the Titan HD. But they wanted to go their own way and produce their own engines after they fell out with International.

And tic, yes! A blind, retarded, one handed monkey can make one run. Thats the beauty of it! Not only can he make one run, he can turn it up, and he'd have far more options than if he tried to do the same with a 6.9/7.3 IDI/ 7.3 PS/ 6.0PS/ 6.7 PS. That would make him one smart monkey! OTOH what would you call the poor frustrated soul who had to work on any of the IDI's or Powerstrokes? (usually half stuffed under the firewall in a SD) …A Ford dealer mechanic…Wouldn't you rather be a monkey too?

​​​​​​​Ed

 

Having owned both newer models I can say these are two totally different trucks. Ram 2500 is a beast with a smooth ride and a interior like a Bently but needs to get amped up a bit. There is no reason this truck is not 400+ HP this motor would laugh at that. The interior is awesome just needs a few tweaks and more technology. Cockpit is narrow they need to make console a bit smaller love the fatter steering wheel. Hate Ram boxes takes up too much of bed but I can see a contractor liking them. Not really sure what the designers do all day but such simple things that could make it so much better. Ram's biggest problem is quality control they have none. These new trucks have more problems than any I have ever seen. Our truck came broke from the factory had to wait on a part to even pick it up. I could write for ever on these trucks. Ford is our most recent truck. After having four of them we tried the Ram and came back. The Super Duty is more of a truck. Sits higher rides rougher but Dominates with technology. I give the 3500 series to Ram with the Aisin but I give 2500 series to Ford F-250.The Super Duty is certainly nothing to brag about it as well has many issues. They all have gotten too big they just don't care about the customer anymore. Yea sure they all run the fancy bull commercials and adds but really don't give a s--t about us. At the price these trucks are selling they are both failing. As long as we keep buying them it will never change.

 

nope, i want an engine that will run 500,000 trouble free miles, not one that belches black smoke like a 1890 steam locomotive,

 

hhmmm what's goingon in here? oh good, smack talk!

 

Wow is this it?? You can't even quote correctly.

I said "Ford went thru what? Four different diesels to get it right?, and your response is this??



Who said anything about where Ford got their diesels from?? The point was, Ford went thru four different diesels whereas Dodge had been running the same basic Cummins engine design. It goes to decisions made by the higher ups. But since you went there, why didn't Ford at least pick the best of what Navistar had to offer? Navistar had a similar inline six with similar displacement and performance to the 6BT, and that was the DT360. Instead Ford piddled around with old underpowered IDIs and an early P(o)S that used a needlessly complex and expensive injection system and still ended up replacing those. It must had been the idea of using a V8 design over an inline 6

I said "And get this, even Ford had spec'ed out their medium duty trucks with the 6BT, instead of their own offerings."

And your response;

Quote:

nope, because ford never made a diesel. they bought them from navastar. the first ford diesel is the 6.7

Again, who said anything about where Ford got the engines from? International (Navistar) did have a few competing engines for use in mediums. The previously mentioned DT360 and the T444E (AKA 7.3 Powder Stoke) They didn't use either. Instead, they specced out more of the medium duty trucks with the same 6BT you can get in a Dodge. Why was that tic? Lets recap for a moment. Ford bought the International engines for their light trucks but bought the Cummins for their larger trucks. Ford eventually dropped International as their diesel engine supplier. Bottom line, Ford went thru four engines to get it right.

Quote:

my 88 has 495,000 miles on it.
the other 5 trucks i had are all still running too, and they all have over 400,000 miles on them.
there are many diesel trucks in the forums here with over 400,000 miles on them

So?? Your point?? I don't doubt that any diesel can go 400K, 500k or more these days. (I knew a guy with a 6.5 GM that had 400K on it) Currently, Ford is touting that their 6.7 has a service life expectancy of 500K. However, we all know that the 6BT/ISB have been known to easily break 500K and many have gone over a million miles, way long before Ford decided to make their own diesels. But I'm sure theres probably a 6.7 P(o)S out there with a million documented miles on it somewhere. However, we all know there are million mile Cummins out there, going the distance. Especially when you consider that the 6BT/ISB, is just a smaller version of their ISX engines which are found in many long haul trucks that all rack up over a million in a couple of years. In any case, there are a bunch of worn out Dodges because that engine has taken many of them, that far and the rest of the truck is going to wear out…even a Ford, if they go that far.

EGR delete yet?? You won't get smoke out of a current 6.7 Cummins. Modern engines have to comply with the feds. An older engine will smoke. It won't matter of it's an old 5.9 6BT or 7.3 Power Smoke…. The difference is when it comes to engine swaps, the Cummins was designed to fit into many trucks (Except maybe those with really short hoods, like a Super Poopy) I even stuck one in my Dakota, and no, I didn't chop the firewall to make it fit. At the other end of the swap spectrum, besides being easy to swap, the Cummins is easier to maintain and service, easier and cheaper to turn up, easier to access, and owners of these fine engines enjoy far more aftermarket support. It kinda makes Ford fans blue with envy, even some of your own prefer it over your own offerings. Maybe it's time to bring up that old myth of how Ford used to own Cummins again?

I rest my case.

​​​​​​​Ed

 

it's Pooperduty dammit!
lol

 

We need longevity these trucks are just built like junk with a few exceptions. Our son has our 2011 King ranch 350 and wow falling apart everywhere. Had to replace moon roof, passenger window motor broken driver side has to be pulled up on to close ( thought that was only in 1970's lmao) several engine issues always has check engine light even after having checked out, some kind of squealing noise in dash, interior leather just junk (of course its a king ranch) even when you close the doors reminds me of a truck 20 yrs old. These trucks get higher and higher priced yet quality doesn't follow. I won't even talk about our 08 f150 at least its still running. I think they figured it out build a truck like crap so every 3 to 5 years people will get new ones pretty smart huh. This is not just pointed at Ford its all of them. Actually I don't even want to say this but if I had to give longevity to someone I think it would be GMC cough cough. Any way Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all that celebrate.