Hi. I am looking at the possibility of upgrading the engine in my '55 F-600.

The truck has a hydraulic dump that is powered by the Aux PTO on the transmission, so I do not have the option of installing a different transmission.

The stock engine is a 256 Y-Block. I would like to upgrade to something much more modern.

What engine options are available? Also, is it possible to swap out transmission bellhousings to accommodate a Windsor motor? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Terry

 

I answered you in the other thread. I think you had the idea that FE/FT bells were the same as Y blocks. Nope:


Y block and FE/FT patterns are different.

FE and FT engines share the same basic design and bell patterns. FT motors use a bell with engine mounts on each side, and an iron front cover with a mount on it. Crank snouts are larger diameter, compression is low, cams are roundish, head and valves are restrictive. Power peaks are 4000 rpms, give or take a couple hundred depending on which model.

A power upgrade will most likely require a transmission and new PTO anyway.

Then there is the matter of the rest of the truck. Speeds north of 60 can be an issue with the brakes and steering these had.

Perhaps a 292 would give you enough grunt to keep working that truck? Bolt it job, pretty good power increase but not something that requires rebuilding or replacing other major parts.

Serving suggestion......

351W uses yet another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patternshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ford_bellhousing_patterns

 

You are right, a 292 would be a great power increase, but I would like to find something more common. A 302 or 351 is what I would like to put in there for power and dependability reasons. Plus it does not become a big production if the engine decides to crap out on me, as I do use this truck for business purposes.

60 MPH and 4000 RPM's is at the top of my operating range and really have no need or desire to go beyond these thresholds. And I really have no problem with slowing down on the hills and such.

Are transmissions with Aux PTO's very common? This is the first truck I have ever owned with an Aux PTO, but if I can find one that bolts up to a Windsor block, I would be a happy little clam.

Is there a possibility of changing bellhousings on my existing 4-speed to something compatible with a Windsor or FE?

Another thought that ventured thru my melon is to install a small 5 HP engine to assume the transmissions PTO duties. That should open up a whole suitcase full of engine and transmission possibilities for the truck, right? Or is there something I am missing, here?

 

A buddy of mine that I work with suggested mounting a hydraulic pump with an electric clutch onto the truck's engine and using that to operate the truck's dump box. He said he had that setup on a truck of some sort and he loved the way it worked. That should open up a lot of engine / transmission options. Anybody agree or disagree?? Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks!
Terry

 

I have an electric over hydraulic system on my F450 and a PTO system on my old F600. The Electric system is ok, but doesn't have anywhere neat the capability or speed of the PTO system. They really aren't in the same league. PTO is a premium option feature for a small dump like my F450, but I've never an electric on a bigger truck like the F600.

As to engine options, I've heard of FT series engines adapted to the 60's trucks, but I suspect that the bellhousing original to the newer engine is part of the swap. The newest FT engine is about 40 years old now, so good used ones aren't really falling off treea anymore.

The later trucks have the Ford Lima engine in a couple of displacements, but are physically bigger.

I'd suggest you find a later truck with a good engine and appropriate transmission, park them side by side and start the swap. This isn't for the faint of heart

 

Your transmission has the "old" "square" trans to bell pattern. 302s (which I would not use, just not going to give you much low end torque) and 351ws use the "new" "butterfly" pattern, more of a rectangle. I found a Quicktime bell that might work, but it is over $600.

You will have to deal with engine mounts, as those engines use side mounts and rely on a rear crossmember to support the trans.

As for PTO availability, the T18 and NP435 4 speeds, and the later model ZF 5 speed OD transmissions all have provisions for PTO units. You would have to buy one compatible with the new trans, as it is a sure bet the one on your current trans will not work. (might work on a T18, maybe, possibly...)

Other issues will be cooling, exhaust, accessory drives--you will probably bring everything over with the new motor and figure out a delete for things like PS and AC. Linkages, previously mentioned motor mounts, conversion from generator to alternator if you didn't do that already, drive shafts, clutch set up, (are you hydraulic?) and parking/emergency brake. Some of those transmissions can be found with a parking brake on them, but that is another search job. (NP435 a more likely candidate there) And the main drive shaft, and possible relocation and connection of your hydraulic pump.

A belt driven pump with an electric clutch can be had, not free though...

High Pressure Hydraulic Clutch Pump — 2.32Cu In. | Hydraulic Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment=

You will have to sort out your pressure and gpm needs before you go that route.

Again, you have to consider all things, including the very basic question about such a major investment in such an old vehicle.

 

A very good suggestion.

 

X3 on that idea. Absolutely the best to do a engine swap

 

I have a line on a '92 Bronco with a 351W that a buddy of mine is willing to let me have for cheap. That will include all accessories and such. I am gonna pull off the fuel injection and replace it with a 2 barrel. The distributor will also get replaced by a vacuum advance unit.

I have been looking at the hydraulic pump mentioned above and believe that is the way to go, without a doubt. That just leaves me with the transmission issue. I am going to use a manual transmission and the Bronco is set up with an Automatic of some flavor.

The only thing I haven't really figured out is the parking brake setup. I may have to fabricate something to the trans output yoke or something. If anybody has ideas, don't be afraid to shout 'em out.

Thanks to everybody for your input!
Terry

 

The ZF 5 speed would be a good choice. BTW, do you have a two speed rear axle?

Back to the ZF. It also has a PTO port. Read up on the parking brake here. It seems that the 4x4 version (tail shaft housing made to bolt to TC adapter) is also used when you add the parking brake:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ing-brake.html

They do use a hydraulic throw out bearing. Not sure if you already have a juice clutch.

I found some other links, but can't make 'em work right now. Will try later.

OK, try this. It's old and slow, but that's what we're talking about anyway:

http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2004_07.pdf

 

That is so cool. I was planning on sticking in the truck 5-speed trans, I just didn't realize that it was called the ZF. And I had no idea it had a PTO port! Nor a Parking Brake in the tailshaft. I think it is my lucky day! I think this swap won't be the gut wrencher that I originally figured it would be.

Oh, and yes, I do have the Eaton 2-Speed. 8.80 low, 6.30 high if I remember correctly.

Just out of curiosity, the 6-speed ZF, is 5th gear the drive gear and 6th being overdrive? Or does it have 2 Overdrives? Curiosity only. I am still planning on using the 5 speed unless I would happen to stumble upon a 6 speed at reasonable price.

Thanks!
Terry

 

The ZF is a 5 speed with 4th direct & 5th being OD.

It is an integral bell trans, so you will be looking for a 300 or 351W powered 4x4 trans from about '87 to '97, not sure on the exact dates.

The six speed transmissions would not have the 351W bell pattern. AFAIK and can find, they are OD in top gear.

The parking brake would have to come off an F450 or 550 trans, so you have some mix and match work to do.

 

ZFs have PTO port(s) on both sides a do the T-19 4-speeds.

 

The F450 and F550 were only equipped with V10 or Diesel engines, both of which have different bolt paterns than the 351, so those transmissions aren't a direct bolt up.

I don't know, but you would have to verify that the transmission mounted parking brake (not sure there is one: I'll have to check mine) is a simple bolt on, or does the transmission have to be disassembeld to convert, ie shaft changes.

The Old Body Style F450 commonly had a 460 or Diesel, again a different bolt pattern than the 351.

The guy I bought my 59 F100 from also had a ~51 F4 updated to a 302, so it is doable. I don't know what he did for a transmission.

 

The park brake assembly bolts on to the back of the trans on the transfer case surface. The First year old style F-450 in 1988 had a 351W EFI as std equipment. That trans is the 5 Speed ZF with the park brake on the back.
I believe it also the same ZF used in the F250s 4X4 with a 351W.
Make sure when your shopping for a ZF it has the PTO covers at the bottom sides.
If someone tries to sell you one a aluminum case 5 Speed that doesn't have those PTO covers, It's a MAZDA trans.

ZFs were the only 5 and 6 speed transmissions used in F250,350,450s
ZFs were rare options on F150s for a short period of time (I think in 1988 only)
Mazdas 5 speeds were Only in F150s