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6.7 hot engine oil???

 
  #16  
Old 02-16-2014, 07:04 PM
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Easy there Tonto. I never said it had to be Motorcraft. I was merely pointing out that while the guy was hoping that the dealer was using synthetic oil, most dealers don't even use Motorcraft oil which you would expect from a Ford dealer let alone synthetic.

Please proceed to the next post in which you wish to discredit me!
 
  #17  
Old 02-16-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 720Deere View Post
Please proceed to the next post in which you wish to discredit me!
I'm sorry Matt, that was never my intent. I just thought the meme was funny and wanted to point out that the API spec is what matters. That's all.
 
  #18  
Old 02-17-2014, 08:13 AM
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Hug it out
 
  #19  
Old 02-17-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom View Post
I don't think that's accurate Tuevo. I'm having a tough time finding a lot on the CJ-4 spec, but the previous gasoline engine oil spec required far more than 240 from oil. In fact the testing for API SM oil tests it in an engine at 302 EOT for 100 hours straight, only stopping every 20 hours to check the oil level. If conventional oil broke down at 240 there's no chance a conventional API SM oil could exist, yet there are many.

SwRI: Sequence IIIG test for gasoline engines, API SM, ILSAC GF-4

For API CJ-4 oils I can't find an endurance test at high temperatures like this, but there is a minimum viscosity at 302 F.

http://www.swri.org/4org/d08/chemtests/HiTempShear.pdf

I'm no oil chemist, but I'd venture to say that there is no chance that conventional oil breaks down around 240 if the standards for both gas and diesel oils require it to perform at 302.
I'm not at a proper computer so I can't site the source of information but I suspect it is readily available out there. I use the term "break-down" a bit loosely. From a lubrication stand-point, conventional oils do keep the metal surfaces apart past the 240 degree level. The break-down I am referring to is the first stage where conventional oils begin to change. One of the components of conventional oils, parafins are the first to oxidize and vaporize and eventually show up as varnish mostly on non-wear surfaces. We've all seen oil varnish on the inside of valve covers, etc. True synthetic oils do not have any parafins or miscellaneous content so there are no such effects until the base itself begins to oxidize at much higher temperatures.

We all know the low and high temperature advantages of synthetic oils, but there are also benefits due to the lack of non-lubricative components within the conventional oils.

Sent from my mobile device
 
  #20  
Old 07-22-2014, 03:10 PM
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I am going up to Big Bear from San Diego this weekend. Will be pulling my 7,000 lbs camper as usual.

I just came back from the Ford dealer. I tried to get some sort or recording device to prove oil is getting too hot too quick. They said to not worry and stop looking at the oil temp.

So this time I am going to drive it without trying to avoid high temps. I will post up results here in about 10 days.....
 
  #21  
Old 07-22-2014, 03:27 PM
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I run pure synthetic, so I don't worry about 240 degree oil temps. That's about where I end up towing my 8K pound travel trailer at 60 mph, 90 degrees outside, up a 6% incline. Anything above 250 and I would slow down, although that temp is probably fine too. Only had to do that once going up an 8% grade.

I have a race car and its oil temps live in the 250-260 range, and I have 5K+ racing miles on that engine. Synthetic plus frequent oil changes and it still makes the same power that it did on day 1.
 
  #22  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by buzybraza View Post
I am going up to Big Bear from San Diego this weekend. Will be pulling my 7,000 lbs camper as usual. I just came back from the Ford dealer. I tried to get some sort or recording device to prove oil is getting too hot too quick. They said to not worry and stop looking at the oil temp. So this time I am going to drive it without trying to avoid high temps. I will post up results here in about 10 days.....
I hate to say it, and don't take it the wrong way, but it's stuff like this why manufacturers stopped putting real gauges in cars and trucks. In years past gauges used to actually show temperatures, but because people would bring their cars and trucks in to complain about fluctuating temperatures.

There is nothing wrong with your truck. 240 degrees isn't even approaching a dangerously warm level for oil temp. Ford doesn't publish maximum specs, but in lots of applications temps over 300 degrees aren't uncommon. Your truck *will* show an overheat and reduce power LONG before you get to truly dangerous temperatures. The API CJ-4 oil standard requires a certain sustained viscosity at 150 degrees Celsius. That's 302 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes, the oil is required to perform to spec a full 60 degrees warmer than your truck is getting.

www.apicj-4.org

Stop worrying and enjoy your truck.
 
  #23  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:45 PM
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Drewtk, if it makes you feel any better......I had a water pump go out on me in the middle of nowhere. My engine would not let me run it when I hit 249F if I remember correctly. The point is, the engine shuts down before you damage it. I've been there and drove another 60,000 miles without issue.
 
  #24  
Old 07-22-2014, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mud_Man_Dude View Post
Drewtk, if it makes you feel any better......I had a water pump go out on me in the middle of nowhere. My engine would not let me run it when I hit 249F if I remember correctly.
More than likely you were shut down for warm coolant temperatures rather than oil temps. 249 is warm, but not dangerously so. If your coolant temp gets that hot you're approaching dangerous territory though.

I wish they would let us see all available data on the gauge screen. I believe this thread is a good example why they don't.
 
  #25  
Old 07-22-2014, 07:25 PM
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I have hit 248F oil temps with no loss of power.
 
  #26  
Old 07-22-2014, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by buzybraza View Post
I have two 6.7 diesels.

How hot can I let the engine oil get?

I was told (by ford dealer mechanics) to not let it get to or past 240F.

Both my 6.7 diesels get close to 240F (I mean, I got both to 239F!!!) very easily when on a grade towing a 7200 lbs. gross weight toy hauler trailer.

I am very disappointed because I tow (going to the desert to ride dirt bikes from San Diego to Borrego Springs) together with a fried with a dodge and he cannot get his truck engine oil past 212F!

It seems to me the oil cooling is very inadequate on these 6.7 turbo diesels...

Opinions/experiences please!!!
Note:*When a high engine temperature condition is present, the engine may exhibit a lack of power concern without a DTC due to the derate strategies designed for engine temperature protection.

Lack/Loss Of Power: Acceleration, CruiseRuns Rough: Acceleration, CruiseMisses: Idle, Acceleration, CruiseBuck/Jerk: Acceleration, Cruise, DecelerationHesitation/Stumble: AccelerationSurge: Acceleration, CruisePoor Fuel Economy

Access the PCM and monitor the following temperature PIDS with the scan tool:

ECT Derate will occur when the engine coolant temperature is greater than 109C (225F)EOT Derate will occur when the oil temperature is greater than 125C (257F)FRT Derate will occur when temperature is greater than 80C (176F) These are the real numbers that will put truck in de rate these are straight of wsm cause I'm ford diesel tech work on these everyday as for your concern if your trucks are early 2010 or 2011 build 6.7s we had problems where in the upper oil plan there is a restrictor in oil galleys that directs oil to the oil cooler sometimes those restrictor would dislodge and would cause the oil to bypass the oil cooler which I turn eot would run hot and unfortunately pcm will not set mil light or code will just de rate power until see temp drop then it will restore power only fix for restrictor is to replace upper oil pan if you have any other questions feel free to ask
 
  #27  
Old 07-22-2014, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by EpicCowlick View Post
This is one reason I prefer to use synthetic oil. At 240 degrees, conventional oils will just begin to break down whereas full synthetics can get to about 400 degrees without concern. I've raced (well, not exactly racing, but sort feels that way when I blow by the semis) up long steep grades in the heat of summer with a heavy trailer and have seen the engine oil get to 240 degrees. It does seem to stop there though no matter how hard I push it.
Getting a little off topic, is the oil Ford uses for the 6.7 synthetic, or a synthetic blend, conventional...? I purchased the maint. plan with the truck, it specifies that it covers synthetic oil, wondering if I would need to push that with (using synthetic) dealership when servicing.
 
  #28  
Old 07-22-2014, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom View Post
I hate to say it, and don't take it the wrong way, but it's stuff like this why manufacturers stopped putting real gauges in cars and trucks. In years past gauges used to actually show temperatures, but because people would bring their cars and trucks in to complain about fluctuating temperatures.

There is nothing wrong with your truck. 240 degrees isn't even approaching a dangerously warm level for oil temp. Ford doesn't publish maximum specs, but in lots of applications temps over 300 degrees aren't uncommon. Your truck *will* show an overheat and reduce power LONG before you get to truly dangerous temperatures. The API CJ-4 oil standard requires a certain sustained viscosity at 150 degrees Celsius. That's 302 degrees Fahrenheit. Yes, the oil is required to perform to spec a full 60 degrees warmer than your truck is getting.

CJ-4 WEBSITE

Stop worrying and enjoy your truck.
No offense taken! Ever! I wouldn't be posting here if I was worried about that! The only reason I started to talk about this is because I asked. The dealers. Service managers to be precise.

One of them said ford does not want to see sustained oil temps over 220F. The other said not over 240F. When I said truck(s) (I have two 6.7) are getting high oil temps, one of the service managers said let's put a recorder on it to see what you are doing.

Today, when I said let's put the recorder on, he back pedaled and said: "No, you won't hurt the motor no matter what. Stop worrying."

So, I will!!!

But since I have blown up four 6.0 turbos, the jury is still out.... I will let you guys know...
 
  #29  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pstroke67 View Post
Derate will occur when temperature is greater than 80C (176F)
Derate will occur when which temperature is over 80C? That's kind of confusing.

Originally Posted by RigTrash601 View Post
Getting a little off topic, is the oil Ford uses for the 6.7 synthetic, or a synthetic blend, conventional...? I purchased the maint. plan with the truck, it specifies that it covers synthetic oil, wondering if I would need to push that with (using synthetic) dealership when servicing.
Nope. No synthetic oil required. The factory spec CJ-4 oil in any of the recommended grades. 5w40 is a full-synthetic grade, but the others can come in dino or synthetic. No reason to spend more for synthetic oil; the OLM is calibrated to regular dino oil.

Originally Posted by buzybraza View Post
No offense taken! Ever! I wouldn't be posting here if I was worried about that! The only reason I started to talk about this is because I asked. The dealers. Service managers to be precise.

One of them said ford does not want to see sustained oil temps over 220F. The other said not over 240F. When I said truck(s) (I have two 6.7) are getting high oil temps, one of the service managers said let's put a recorder on it to see what you are doing.

Today, when I said let's put the recorder on, he back pedaled and said: "No, you won't hurt the motor no matter what. Stop worrying."

So, I will!!!

But since I have blown up four 6.0 turbos, the jury is still out.... I will let you guys know...
Wow, sounds to me like you're getting some misinformation from the dealer. One of my favorite sayings is "In God we trust, all others bring DATA!" Pstroke67 did just that and cited his sources, and it sounds like the folks at the dealer just guessed. Sounds like the folks you spoke with at the dealer didn't know what they were talking about.

Four turbos...you have some lousy luck!
 
  #30  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pstroke67 View Post
Note:*When a high engine temperature condition is present, the engine may exhibit a lack of power concern without a DTC due to the derate strategies designed for engine temperature protection.

Lack/Loss Of Power: Acceleration, CruiseRuns Rough: Acceleration, CruiseMisses: Idle, Acceleration, CruiseBuck/Jerk: Acceleration, Cruise, DecelerationHesitation/Stumble: AccelerationSurge: Acceleration, CruisePoor Fuel Economy

Access the PCM and monitor the following temperature PIDS with the scan tool:

ECT Derate will occur when the engine coolant temperature is greater than 109C (225F)EOT Derate will occur when the oil temperature is greater than 125C (257F)FRT Derate will occur when temperature is greater than 80C (176F) These are the real numbers that will put truck in de rate these are straight of wsm cause I'm ford diesel tech work on these everyday as for your concern if your trucks are early 2010 or 2011 build 6.7s we had problems where in the upper oil plan there is a restrictor in oil galleys that directs oil to the oil cooler sometimes those restrictor would dislodge and would cause the oil to bypass the oil cooler which I turn eot would run hot and unfortunately pcm will not set mil light or code will just de rate power until see temp drop then it will restore power only fix for restrictor is to replace upper oil pan if you have any other questions feel free to ask
I have felt this derate before. If you are just concentrating on the road and not paying close attention, you won't notice it. On a recent camping trip, I noticed that at times the truck would pull small hills in 6th gear with no problem and at other times, the same type of hill would require a good bit of effort in 6th gear. Once I noticed a perceived decrease in power, I started to pay closer attention to all of my temperatures to see what was the cause. Every time the truck started to feel sluggish, the ECT was above 223F on my Edge Insight. Once I made the correlation, I then started to watch ECT creep up on the harder pulls and sure enough you can feel the engine back off when it hits that magical temp!

It still amazes me that they don't have the fan kick in before they derate. My fan clutch does not engage until EOT over 240F. Once the fan clutch engages, the temps back off pretty quick. Maybe this is a parameter that the custom tuning guys can change. It would be nice to take advantage of the fan a little sooner on a long, hard pull!
 

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