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  #31  
Old 01-15-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by El Camino Man View Post
Iv got the 4 speed (4R100). I can definitely feel the torque converter lock-up also, even without OD. And the 5R110 and 4R100 both have identical gearing on the last 3 gears, including an overdrive ratio of .71.

I believe my test should give me pretty similar results to actually having the gears. With my OD off at 2300 rpms puts me at 58 mph. With 4.88s at 2300 rpms would be 65 mph so the wind resistance should also be similar. The only difference between now and the future should be when I actually get my bigger tires.
On my test using GPS and 32" tires I was turning 2280 (close enough to 2300) RPMs at 60 MPH, our differences could be attributed to your speedo calibration and small tire size discrepancies. My 32"s were worn out.
According to the lie-o-meter, Im actually getting near identical mileage. Im not gonna lie, Im getting pretty pumped for this swap

And SEE! We CAN get along! Lol. Im glad, now lets talk some gears lol
Originally Posted by Im50fast View Post
If I knew how to make two smiley faces tap beer glasses I would do it also!
Here ya go! When posting from a PC the smileys are just to the right of the reply box, on some phones and tablets(?) they don't come out to play.

I definitely appreciate where you are coming from now, and I'm glad to have it smoothed over. I'm sorry for adding heat to the fire.
See you all another post!
Great! I'm glad we are past all that drama, it really didn't add to the postive forum experience. Now let's do some more of this!

Of course I'm at work, so I'll do mine in the morning!
 
  #32  
Old 01-15-2014, 10:53 PM
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Hey El Camino Man, I have wanted to ask you about your name here for some time. I assume you have or had a special ElCo? I used to have a '79 ElCo that came from the factory with the wimpy 267 V-8 and a 4 speed manual, when the tiny motor finally gave up I swapped in a 350 horse 350 crate motor and upgraded to a BorgWarner 5 speed. It also got the deeper airdam and ground effects skirts between the wheels and ran a set of IROC 16" rims with BFG Comp T/A 225/50s up front and 265/50s in back. It was lowered 3" in front with dropped spindles and 4" in the rear with shorter 400"/lb springs, the front had 520"/lb springs (it didn't deflect hardly at all if you sat on a fender!). It had KYB gas adjustable shocks all around with Energy poly bushing throughout and Addco sway bars, 1.5" front and 1.125 out back. That little bench seat pickup made more than one Vette owner wonder "What the hell just happened!" It was a blast to drive and handled like a slotcar, sold it to get a '69 camaro ragtop with ALL new sheetmetal thats still waiting it's turn in the back of the garage.
 
  #33  
Old 01-16-2014, 09:38 AM
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No worries! I bought a 1980 El Camino at the age of 14 years old. I LOVED El Caminos and one came up for sale not too far away for $1200. SOLD! Mine was similar to yours: 267 V8, but mine had the ol TH350. Swapped the 2 barrel carb for a 4 barrel and bumped up the power along with fuel mileage. A valve took a crap and I ended up just tossing the motor in favor of a 350. A few months later the 350 ended up tossing a rod so it got scrapped for a 305. Drove it awhile and had a buddy give me a 200-4R, so I pulled the TH350 in favor of that added OD. Put in the 200-4R and that's where the story ends... Trannys in the car but that's it. No tranny cooler lines, no crossmember, heck I don't even think the driveshafts in it lol. Its been sitting for a few years now. Iv been kinda waiting for some money to be dumped in my lap from somewhere to actually fix it up the way its meant to be but I don't see that happening anytime soon

Iv owned that car for 8 years and it was my first car. I don't think I could ever bring myself to sell it lol
 
  #34  
Old 01-16-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by WE3ZS View Post
Hey El Camino Man, I have wanted to ask you about your name here for some time. I assume you have or had a special ElCo? I used to have a '79 ElCo that came from the factory with the wimpy 267 V-8 and a 4 speed manual, when the tiny motor finally gave up I swapped in a 350 horse 350 crate motor and upgraded to a BorgWarner 5 speed. It also got the deeper airdam and ground effects skirts between the wheels and ran a set of IROC 16" rims with BFG Comp T/A 225/50s up front and 265/50s in back. It was lowered 3" in front with dropped spindles and 4" in the rear with shorter 400"/lb springs, the front had 520"/lb springs (it didn't deflect hardly at all if you sat on a fender!). It had KYB gas adjustable shocks all around with Energy poly bushing throughout and Addco sway bars, 1.5" front and 1.125 out back. That little bench seat pickup made more than one Vette owner wonder "What the hell just happened!" It was a blast to drive and handled like a slotcar, sold it to get a '69 camaro ragtop with ALL new sheetmetal thats still waiting it's turn in the back of the garage.
Sounds impressive. Got any pics? I like vehicles lowered (but not slammed low).
 
  #35  
Old 01-16-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by El Camino Man View Post
No worries! I bought a 1980 El Camino at the age of 14 years old. I LOVED El Caminos and one came up for sale not too far away for $1200. SOLD! Mine was similar to yours: 267 V8, but mine had the ol TH350. Swapped the 2 barrel carb for a 4 barrel and bumped up the power along with fuel mileage. A valve took a crap and I ended up just tossing the motor in favor of a 350. A few months later the 350 ended up tossing a rod so it got scrapped for a 305. Drove it awhile and had a buddy give me a 200-4R, so I pulled the TH350 in favor of that added OD. Put in the 200-4R and that's where the story ends... Trannys in the car but that's it. No tranny cooler lines, no crossmember, heck I don't even think the driveshafts in it lol. Its been sitting for a few years now. Iv been kinda waiting for some money to be dumped in my lap from somewhere to actually fix it up the way its meant to be but I don't see that happening anytime soon

Iv owned that car for 8 years and it was my first car. I don't think I could ever bring myself to sell it lol
Don't get rid of it, to this day I still regret unloading my first ride, a '69 Camaro 350/4 spd Hugger Orange. That Elco will be sweet with the smallblock and OD, I had to modify my crossmember and shorten the driveshaft when I put the BW 5 speed in it. To tie this conversation in with the thread topic that ElCo would love deeper gears too, should be able to find something out of a G body at a partsyard with a better ratio. Funny now that I'm thinking about it, PA classified the ElCo as a truck, so it cost more to keep registered but my lifted ton+ sprung Excursion is titled as a station wagon!

Originally Posted by Im50fast View Post
Sounds impressive. Got any pics? I like vehicles lowered (but not slammed low).
Almost all of my cool car pics are from film cameras and I haven't had any of them transferred over to digital yet. Most of my muscle car wrenching was before my son came along or when he was still a puppy, now he's taller than me and has his learner's permit! I want to teach him to drive stick and the only ride we have with a manual is my '69 Trans-Am (1 of 697) RAIII 400 4 speed. It's been wrapped up in it's cacoon in the garage for a few years, so we will be getting new tires and a battery for it this Spring, should make for fun driving lessons!
 
  #36  
Old 01-16-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WE3ZS View Post
[B][COLOR=blue]To tie this conversation in with the thread topic that ElCo would love deeper gears too
You know it! I actually haven't a clue what its got in it now, prolly 3.08s or something ridiculous... Im wanting to drop a posi w/ 3.73s in it one of these days
 
  #37  
Old 01-16-2014, 08:19 PM
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Quick question for ya guys. You might not know the answer but Ill ask it anyways. I would really like to slap some gears in this thing before I take my first camping trip on March 1st, and at the latest mid July since we will be going camping in Tennessee (7 hour drive). I was thinking to myself I could just do the rear axle and leave the fronts alone til I got some money saved up to do it. Then I got to thinking: my truck doesn't have manual locking hubs... even with the t-case in 2wd the front axle spins. Doesn't this mean I HAVE to do both? Or does the t-case completely disconnect the front driveshaft?
 
  #38  
Old 01-16-2014, 08:39 PM
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When you say your truck doesn't have manual locking hubs, what exactly do you mean? Do you have the ESOF hubs that say AUTO and MAN (or LOCK, I can't remember which...)? If thats what you have and with them in AUTO and the dash switch set to 2WD you should be able to reach around the tire and turn the U joints freely, if they don't turn you need to do a little ESOF service. They aren't hard to removed, clean, relube and re-install.
In 2WD the front axle should not spin as you drive or as you rotate a tire with the front end jacked up (on jackstands for safety!).
Yes the transfer case should completely disconnect the front drive line when not in 4WD.
I swapped my rear axle housing to the new one with the 4.88s two years and 6k miles ago, I haven't got around to doing the front yet, maybe this Spring/Summer.... So yeah you can just do the rear now and be just 2 wheel drive until you do the front later. I don't off road or drive my EX in the snow/salt so not having 4X4 isn't an issue for me.
 
  #39  
Old 01-16-2014, 08:46 PM
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I did a little research and got the same jist. With the ESOF, a vacuum engages the hubs, which remedies my concern. I just figured since you couldn't turn the hub to "free" it was engaged constantly lol. Heck, with my rims, I cant even get to the hubs without taking off my center piece (cant think of what its called!)
 
  #40  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:23 PM
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I'm running an 03' with 285/75/16s, a modified y-pipe, a five star tune, a rebuilt heavy duty trans and 4.56 gears. WE3ZSs rpm calls are accurate, I run 2200-2300 at 70 mph ish, far from screaming. I tried a few mods to help the towing ability and found gears were the only answer that provided significant results. I previously towed a 32 ft fifth wheel with 20 ft deep v fiberglass walleye boat in tandem. This pushed me towards 22-23k lbs. I've now upgraded campers to a 39' cedar creek that grosses 14-15k lbs and is high profile, ultimately my weight is similar to before. I'm at the point that I have enough power, I'm simply out of truck. On the flat, and without adverse wind I can run OD, otherwise I run in 3rd (aka "D"). Towing this kind of weight I usually run 60-65. This puts me around 3k RPMs in 3rd. I've done this for hours on end with little issue outside of not passing a fuel station.

If you want pulling power, and its a dedicated tow rig like mine, go 4.56s or 4.88s. If you have to live with it as an everyday driver, I wouldn't go deeper than 4.30s. This assuming your not going to go crazy with your tires in the future. 8500lbs should be a walk in the park! I wouldn't worry about fuel mileage, it'll suck no matter.
 
  #41  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:29 PM
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Also, do both ends or don't do it. It only takes one person to flip the switch and f things up. Also, 4low is your friend when maneuvering in tight places like a camp ground. I learned the hard way after cooking my trans backing into a spot up hill. It took me a couple of try's and the trans fluid was running out before the gauge even moved, and this was with the old camper. Unfortunately with the auto system you cannot use the gear reduction of 4-low without engaging the front axle, at least not easily.

Good luck
 
  #42  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:35 PM
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One Last thing, based on my usage I believe 4.88s would be too deep without more transmission gears or larger tires. Just an observation from someone that has 4.56s and had a detailed spread sheet calculating rpm for each gear in relation to speed and tire size before pulling the trigger. You may want to do the same and pay attention to the speeds you like to drive and tow. The calculator at Randy's Ring & Pinion was basically spot on for me.
 
  #43  
Old 01-20-2014, 09:48 PM
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Couldn't I pull the 4wd fuse? Or is it connected into other important things lol. Iv meant to look into it but keep forgetting... Worst case scenario, I could pull the front driveshaft, then I could keep my 4lo too

I filled er up today! Drum roll please!
9.5 mpg
The outcome was... kinda depressing actually. I was hoping to get similar fuel mileage. That was prolly 80%+ highway miles BUT I did hook up to my 5th wheel and pull it a mile to a paved road to make sure it was level hooked up. The lie-o-meter said 10.8 before this fiasco and dropped to 10.0 afterwards. This may be the reason my mileage was low.

On the other hand, on my way home today, I turned off the OD and drove 58 (2300 rpm). The lie-o-meter said somewhere in the 12s (it was jumping around a lot, from low 12s to low 13s). Then I turned the OD back on and drove 65. Lie-o-meter said 12s... Take it for what it is I guess lol.
 
  #44  
Old 01-21-2014, 06:41 AM
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I noticed a very small drop in fuel mileage, maybe 1 mpg. This comes from a person that has tracked every drop of gas, and every item of maintenance in a log book. My log book has the date, the location, the cost, the gallons, the octane (since I installed the tuner), and the mileage. Some times I'll have the wife do it and she''' put it "it was a sunny day......" just to be a smart ***, lol. Unless your really concerned about mileage, I wouldn't much worry about it. Your not changing gears to get better mileage, your changing gears to make it stay in a higher rpm band to help the towing performance and in essence your simply using a larger cheater bar. Think of gears like placing a cheater pipe on the end of a wrench. With the cheater bar you have enough to torque to break things loose that you wouldn't have otherwise been able to (you have more torque), the caveat is you can work as fast. It's the best analogy I can think of. If you doing this just to make your truck faster and more fun to drive, it seems like a waste. Matter of fact day to day driving it actually feel slower unless you stand on it. for that matter my 3.5L Ecoboost in my 1/2 ton would absolutely wax the V10, on the other hand I wouldn't hook it to the fifth wheel. Just food for thought.
 
  #45  
Old 01-21-2014, 06:57 AM
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If you were to only do the rear gear change and put off the front for a while you could just cap off the vacuum port on the electric vacuum switch under the hood (mounted on the right side inner fender just rearward of the battery on my '05 EX). This would prevent any vacuum getting to the front hubs so they will stay unlocked at all times, that way even if the dash switch got inadvetantly thrown to 4X4 even with the transfer case and front axle engaged there would be no binding as the hubs would remain free. There is also a clever low range 2 wheel drive mod detailed here 2004 F250 Auxiliary Switch Install that uses a dash mounted electrical switch to turn off the vacuum switch to allow for reversing in low range without the front hubs getting engaged.
 

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