Tight engine after re-ring 302
#1
Tight engine after re-ring 302
Tried to turn the engine over today it was really tight, so tight using a torque wrench on the crank nut was past the 85 ft Lb click. and we really had to muscle it. The starter bogs down and barely will turn it with the plugs in.
during reassembly The engine turned as expected as each cylinder with new rings was put in. After all eight were in still wasnt that tight. so tight you couldn't turn it with a 1/2 in ratchet. Placed the 289 HIPO heads shaved .010 50 cc chambers and adjusted the lifters on to a new Comps 31-218-2 cam (268 dur .456 lift). The turn got a little stiffer.
I'm re-using the old main bearings and rod bearings as the engine was a previous reman and plasiguage said .003 all the bearing surfaces were cleaned up with crocus cloth. Each piston was numbered and rod numbered and placed in the same hole and same orientation.
After it sat for a few days is when I noticed it was tight while still in the engine stand no tranny attached. I squirted some Royal Purple break in oil in each cylinder. I didnt notice too much improvement.
The only thing I can think of is the rear main seal may have moved and is binding, or could it be, Comps Cams said new springs are required for this cam but since the lift is below .500, the stock springs should be ok is my thinking.
The springs don't seem to be overly squashed. I'm supposed to see 1/8 inch of daylight in the spring when fully compressed Right? I'll recheck each spring clearance tomorrow.
What else should I try? I have taken out the plugs and that helps a little.
I plan to pull the plugs loosen the lifters try and turn the engine from the Harmonic Balancer nut. If it does not improve the friction what else should I try?
Could it be the rear main seal? I would hate to pull the engine and tranny again and do a teardown.
during reassembly The engine turned as expected as each cylinder with new rings was put in. After all eight were in still wasnt that tight. so tight you couldn't turn it with a 1/2 in ratchet. Placed the 289 HIPO heads shaved .010 50 cc chambers and adjusted the lifters on to a new Comps 31-218-2 cam (268 dur .456 lift). The turn got a little stiffer.
I'm re-using the old main bearings and rod bearings as the engine was a previous reman and plasiguage said .003 all the bearing surfaces were cleaned up with crocus cloth. Each piston was numbered and rod numbered and placed in the same hole and same orientation.
After it sat for a few days is when I noticed it was tight while still in the engine stand no tranny attached. I squirted some Royal Purple break in oil in each cylinder. I didnt notice too much improvement.
The only thing I can think of is the rear main seal may have moved and is binding, or could it be, Comps Cams said new springs are required for this cam but since the lift is below .500, the stock springs should be ok is my thinking.
The springs don't seem to be overly squashed. I'm supposed to see 1/8 inch of daylight in the spring when fully compressed Right? I'll recheck each spring clearance tomorrow.
What else should I try? I have taken out the plugs and that helps a little.
I plan to pull the plugs loosen the lifters try and turn the engine from the Harmonic Balancer nut. If it does not improve the friction what else should I try?
Could it be the rear main seal? I would hate to pull the engine and tranny again and do a teardown.
#2
#3
#4
Here is a wild guess... But it comes from a personal experience.
You mentioned everything was good until putting the top end on. I suggest you check the lifter retainer tray bolts... I inadvertently switched them with the cam thrust plate bolts; same thread type but the cam thrust plate bolts are slightly longer due to an unthreaded tip. The longer bolts were pressing on the #2 & 4 cam bearings.
If this is it, the best fix is new cam bearings. You can always try simply replacing the bolts to see how it feels but keep an eye on your oil pressure at least initially.
You mentioned everything was good until putting the top end on. I suggest you check the lifter retainer tray bolts... I inadvertently switched them with the cam thrust plate bolts; same thread type but the cam thrust plate bolts are slightly longer due to an unthreaded tip. The longer bolts were pressing on the #2 & 4 cam bearings.
If this is it, the best fix is new cam bearings. You can always try simply replacing the bolts to see how it feels but keep an eye on your oil pressure at least initially.
#5
#7
Roller block yes... Just caught the part about being a 289 meaning its not a roller block the OP is referring to. Good info I suppose but not relevant to this issue.
To the OP... I would simply start looking at all your moving parts. Start by taking your valve covers off and checking to see if all the valves open and close without restriction. You said the short block spun normally before bolting the heads on... Its gotta be something with the top end.
To the OP... I would simply start looking at all your moving parts. Start by taking your valve covers off and checking to see if all the valves open and close without restriction. You said the short block spun normally before bolting the heads on... Its gotta be something with the top end.
Trending Topics
#8
Thanks Crazy and everyone for their ideas; Last night we pulled the engine and tranny back out. We quit at 8 PM man I was bushed.
Today I went to Horrible Freight and bought telescope gauges to check the cylinders if we need to. We didnt machine the block just a ridge ream and ball hone. We ran a cleanout brush down the oil journals and cleaned them out, Then washed the block out with Dawn dish washing soap.
Tonight I pulled the plugs and backed off the rocker nuts. I tried to turn the engine over again with the long handled torque wrench.
The first 10 degrees of rotation was better but I heard and felt the sound of a dry bearing.
That kind of feeling you get when you rub a wet finger on a clean pane of glass. "Vuurrrp". Now I'm wondering if it could be a cam bearing.
The next thing I think I will try is taking the timing chain off and try turning the Cam by hand.
This what it looked like before we had to pull the engine back out. You can see my Power Steering upgrade and my disc brakes with new red calipers.
Today I went to Horrible Freight and bought telescope gauges to check the cylinders if we need to. We didnt machine the block just a ridge ream and ball hone. We ran a cleanout brush down the oil journals and cleaned them out, Then washed the block out with Dawn dish washing soap.
Tonight I pulled the plugs and backed off the rocker nuts. I tried to turn the engine over again with the long handled torque wrench.
The first 10 degrees of rotation was better but I heard and felt the sound of a dry bearing.
That kind of feeling you get when you rub a wet finger on a clean pane of glass. "Vuurrrp". Now I'm wondering if it could be a cam bearing.
The next thing I think I will try is taking the timing chain off and try turning the Cam by hand.
This what it looked like before we had to pull the engine back out. You can see my Power Steering upgrade and my disc brakes with new red calipers.
#10
Thats one more thing to look at. Ill try again and put a mechanical oil pressure guage on it
Here is my tool
#11
#13
#14
#15
The AOD tranny is off, lifters and pushrods are out heads are still on, the engine is in the engine stand upside down,
We loosened up the rod bearings a little found 2 over torqued. re-torqued to 22 lbs (spec is 19-24) that helped a little.
We did the math 7 lbs per piston drag times 8 for 56 lbs The engine does turn over at 64 lbs on the torque wrench. There is a resistance point on one of the cylinders.
When the crank rotates there is noticeable scrubbing sound as the cylinders were just honed with a 3 stone and a ball hone. So we lubed the cylinder walls again with Royal Purple break in oil. That seemed to help a little.
Cylinders 1 and 5 and 2 and 6 rods had zero side play on the crank. I think there is supposed to be at least a couple thousandths, but thats a moot point, the crank and rod bearings looked good and it ran before, so we left them alone.
The new timing chain was really tight so we are going to re check the timing chain set to see if it was for a 90s fuel injected 302 and if so what is the difference if any for a 71 302 block.
Tomorrow I plan to re-torque all the rods and mains to 15 lbs take a crank torque reading as a base line then re-torque each main to spec and take a crank reading then each rod and take a crank reading.
If its still tight when all back together screw it!! Im gonna just buy a crate short block pull my cam and heads off and swap them. ... I'm 3 weeks over schedule and $350 over budget in Mechanic labor.
My mechanic guy is a chevy man.....built 35 engines over 30 years. only done a Ford or 2 so we are light in the Ford experience department.
I have a feeling the block was a remanufactured engine maybe one from the Grand auto or Kragan years where all they did was replace the worn parts like we are doing this re-ring job. When really I should have insisted on getting the block professionally re machined or just bought a crate engine, but I wanted the experience of an overhaul. So I'm paying for it and learning a lot
Sometimes going cheap is not inexpensive.
We loosened up the rod bearings a little found 2 over torqued. re-torqued to 22 lbs (spec is 19-24) that helped a little.
We did the math 7 lbs per piston drag times 8 for 56 lbs The engine does turn over at 64 lbs on the torque wrench. There is a resistance point on one of the cylinders.
When the crank rotates there is noticeable scrubbing sound as the cylinders were just honed with a 3 stone and a ball hone. So we lubed the cylinder walls again with Royal Purple break in oil. That seemed to help a little.
Cylinders 1 and 5 and 2 and 6 rods had zero side play on the crank. I think there is supposed to be at least a couple thousandths, but thats a moot point, the crank and rod bearings looked good and it ran before, so we left them alone.
The new timing chain was really tight so we are going to re check the timing chain set to see if it was for a 90s fuel injected 302 and if so what is the difference if any for a 71 302 block.
Tomorrow I plan to re-torque all the rods and mains to 15 lbs take a crank torque reading as a base line then re-torque each main to spec and take a crank reading then each rod and take a crank reading.
If its still tight when all back together screw it!! Im gonna just buy a crate short block pull my cam and heads off and swap them. ... I'm 3 weeks over schedule and $350 over budget in Mechanic labor.
My mechanic guy is a chevy man.....built 35 engines over 30 years. only done a Ford or 2 so we are light in the Ford experience department.
I have a feeling the block was a remanufactured engine maybe one from the Grand auto or Kragan years where all they did was replace the worn parts like we are doing this re-ring job. When really I should have insisted on getting the block professionally re machined or just bought a crate engine, but I wanted the experience of an overhaul. So I'm paying for it and learning a lot
Sometimes going cheap is not inexpensive.