Le$$on Learned... for 0BA, 1BA, EAB owners
#46
10-01-2013, 08:14 AM
rule of thrum in the machine shop business is that most all heads that were used before 1972 did not have hard seats installed in the heads
there are heads that come with hard seats from the factory and are mostly 3/4 ton and above.
big block chevys duallys have 2 different gvw's as the lighter gvw will not have hard seats and the heaver gvw will with same castings numbers
I have seen flat heads with hard seats installed from the factory and in cars and light trucks as many blocks were switched in the rebuilding industry
after 1972 and above the manufactors knew about unleaded gases and used what we call flame inducted seats whitch is an induction heater that they put on the seats and heat the cast iron up to raise the carbon to the surface and make the cast iron wear like hard seats the problem with this that you don't know how thick the induction parts are.
we have see them as little as .015/.030 deep and in dart heads as much as 3/8 in and are very hard to machine and make the valves seal.
if you don't have hard seats in your heads you only need to have them installed in the exhaust
we have done this on all our engine rebuilds and had no warrenty problems whatsoever this is the way to go if you don't want to pull and diassemble you engine at a later date because of valve seat recession
there are heads that come with hard seats from the factory and are mostly 3/4 ton and above.
big block chevys duallys have 2 different gvw's as the lighter gvw will not have hard seats and the heaver gvw will with same castings numbers
I have seen flat heads with hard seats installed from the factory and in cars and light trucks as many blocks were switched in the rebuilding industry
after 1972 and above the manufactors knew about unleaded gases and used what we call flame inducted seats whitch is an induction heater that they put on the seats and heat the cast iron up to raise the carbon to the surface and make the cast iron wear like hard seats the problem with this that you don't know how thick the induction parts are.
we have see them as little as .015/.030 deep and in dart heads as much as 3/8 in and are very hard to machine and make the valves seal.
if you don't have hard seats in your heads you only need to have them installed in the exhaust
we have done this on all our engine rebuilds and had no warrenty problems whatsoever this is the way to go if you don't want to pull and diassemble you engine at a later date because of valve seat recession
Ross,
Eagerly awaiting your engine purring again report! My hats off to you
#47
10-02-2013, 01:09 AM
More Turbo
Ross, I am sorry to hear about your engine problems, and a great heads up for those without hardened seats.
My truck, a '49, should be OK, but am not sure. Truck had the original motor when my father got it, but that engine was cracked. He picked up another engine somewhere, did a shade tree overhaul, and that is the engine that is in it now. Thing is, I completely went through the engine some 22 years ago, found 2 cracks, stitched them, and had the block bored and sleeved, and inserts put into those two cylinders.
Now, I can't remember if the engine came out of a '50 or '51, or if there were seats in it at all when the engine work was done. Still has good compression and vacuum last I checked.
Given your story, I am seriously considering pulling the heads to see if there are seats in it or not. If not, this winter will be a good time to have them installed, and do a quick going over of all the other engine components. While they should be OK (engine rebuild has 23K on it, although done 22 years past), sitting from 1999 till last fall doesn't do them any good.
My truck, a '49, should be OK, but am not sure. Truck had the original motor when my father got it, but that engine was cracked. He picked up another engine somewhere, did a shade tree overhaul, and that is the engine that is in it now. Thing is, I completely went through the engine some 22 years ago, found 2 cracks, stitched them, and had the block bored and sleeved, and inserts put into those two cylinders.
Now, I can't remember if the engine came out of a '50 or '51, or if there were seats in it at all when the engine work was done. Still has good compression and vacuum last I checked.
Given your story, I am seriously considering pulling the heads to see if there are seats in it or not. If not, this winter will be a good time to have them installed, and do a quick going over of all the other engine components. While they should be OK (engine rebuild has 23K on it, although done 22 years past), sitting from 1999 till last fall doesn't do them any good.
#48
10-02-2013, 10:17 AM
J.D., do you remember if the engine had the short valve springs with rotators? Not a 100% guarantee, but if it has rotators, it is a strong clue it's a later engine. Also if it is an EAB, almost certainly no hard seats. But many engines were retrofitted in the late 70's, too. See the extra cup at the end of the valve on my engine, compared to the retainer right at the end of the spring on the other pic?
Pulling the intake manifold is easy and you can see quickly if you have rotators. You can usually re-use the gasket too.
Pulling the intake manifold is easy and you can see quickly if you have rotators. You can usually re-use the gasket too.
#50
10-02-2013, 03:01 PM
#51
10-03-2013, 01:50 AM
More Turbo
God, I don't remember Ross, been too many years ago. I did go through my stash of new parts last night to do a bit of inventorying, and I have both a head gasket set and the intake gasket.
Might try to pull the intake this weekend. Was planning to have the truck down for awhile any way, as I want to remove the windshield and have a new one cut by a local glass shop. They did a good job on the backglass, and only charged $47. The windshield is going to run me about a bill (100). Since the truck will not be driven without a windshield, having the intake/heads off won't be an issue. Kind of do it in one swell foop.
As I said previously, I am pretty curious as to what transpired inside that motor whilst sitting for 13 years. I want to take a closs gander at the cylinder walls to look for pitting, ring marks, etc. When I drug it out of the weeds last year, you could not turn the engine by grasping the fan, but it turned easy when it was pulled a few feet with my tractor in 2nd gear, no dragging of tires, no popping sound of a frozen motor coming unstuck.
Since that time (drove the truck to Columbus for the first time on Sept. 29th 2012), I have driven it most days, and even took a couple trips in it back to my other property where it used to sit (about a 100 mile round trip). Total mileage since resurrection is now about 3500. Still has good oil pressure, no smoking, no knocking. The lifters are a little noisy, but have been since I first got it running again. As I think about it, I seem to remember the lifters getting somewhat louder when I drove it before. Then again, I didn't adjust the valves after I broke it in in 1991 after the rebuild, and I have adjustable lifters as you do.
Regarding the quick turn-around on your engine, that is good service. If I have to pull my engine this winter, I hope I get the same.
Might try to pull the intake this weekend. Was planning to have the truck down for awhile any way, as I want to remove the windshield and have a new one cut by a local glass shop. They did a good job on the backglass, and only charged $47. The windshield is going to run me about a bill (100). Since the truck will not be driven without a windshield, having the intake/heads off won't be an issue. Kind of do it in one swell foop.
As I said previously, I am pretty curious as to what transpired inside that motor whilst sitting for 13 years. I want to take a closs gander at the cylinder walls to look for pitting, ring marks, etc. When I drug it out of the weeds last year, you could not turn the engine by grasping the fan, but it turned easy when it was pulled a few feet with my tractor in 2nd gear, no dragging of tires, no popping sound of a frozen motor coming unstuck.
Since that time (drove the truck to Columbus for the first time on Sept. 29th 2012), I have driven it most days, and even took a couple trips in it back to my other property where it used to sit (about a 100 mile round trip). Total mileage since resurrection is now about 3500. Still has good oil pressure, no smoking, no knocking. The lifters are a little noisy, but have been since I first got it running again. As I think about it, I seem to remember the lifters getting somewhat louder when I drove it before. Then again, I didn't adjust the valves after I broke it in in 1991 after the rebuild, and I have adjustable lifters as you do.
Regarding the quick turn-around on your engine, that is good service. If I have to pull my engine this winter, I hope I get the same.
#52
10-12-2013, 01:30 PM
The engine is all back together, in the truck and ready to roll! I spent a LOT of time adjusting the valves, and they are unfortunately much noisier when right at spec. Not real bad, but the aluminum intake doesn't deaden sound like cast iron.
I took the opportunity to put on a new Rochester 2G carb. I'll have to check the jetting on the road, but it is a factory rebuilt and doesn't leak a drop, and the truck started on the first crank. Hoping it gives me mega-HP!
Also going to play with PCV valves, I suspect the one I have is a little too big.
I'm going to start adding MMO with every tankful, at least til I'm comfortable with it being broken in.
I took the opportunity to put on a new Rochester 2G carb. I'll have to check the jetting on the road, but it is a factory rebuilt and doesn't leak a drop, and the truck started on the first crank. Hoping it gives me mega-HP!
Also going to play with PCV valves, I suspect the one I have is a little too big.
I'm going to start adding MMO with every tankful, at least til I'm comfortable with it being broken in.
#54
10-12-2013, 02:16 PM
#55
10-12-2013, 03:34 PM
#56
10-12-2013, 04:00 PM
More Turbo
#57
10-12-2013, 04:16 PM
well glad ya got it fixed ross , makes me think maybe i oughta do mine while it's apart . ken the only flatty i can think of that might have had hydraulics was the lincoln v-12 . i can somewhat remember reading somewhere they had 'em . don't know if they can be swapped in and used if that pans out to be true but ..................... my 95 bird just got real broken ( the left front lower ball joint let go with no warning ) so i myself if i can bring myself to get over the electronic nightmare , am once again thinking of swapping my 4.6 and auto into the 53 , but yet i do love my flatty ....... so whatever comes comes ...........
oh yah the rochester 2g requires an adaptor sold by speedway and others , to work on a regular three bolt intake for our flatties , got one or two of them laying around here , but the merc intake took a weird holley carb that has a four bolt mounting that the little 2g fits on perfect , but in some cases the throttle bore openings have to be opened up to allow the 2g to function properly . if you get lucky and score a canadian merc intake they are aluminum .
oh yah the rochester 2g requires an adaptor sold by speedway and others , to work on a regular three bolt intake for our flatties , got one or two of them laying around here , but the merc intake took a weird holley carb that has a four bolt mounting that the little 2g fits on perfect , but in some cases the throttle bore openings have to be opened up to allow the 2g to function properly . if you get lucky and score a canadian merc intake they are aluminum .
#58
10-12-2013, 04:24 PM
Lead Driver
#60
10-12-2013, 07:07 PM
Thanks all!
Yes, either the Merc intake (with minor relieving) or one of a couple of adapters are needed for the Rochester. I went with this one below, because I like that it keeps the barrels separate (the Speedway adapter is cheaper and easier, but creates a common plenum between the carb and intake). I had to accurately drill and tap a hole in the manifold for this one, was not too hard. After the pic was taken, I blended the top of the manifold to make a smoother transition. If I were to start over, I'd get the Canadian aluminum Merc manifold. You can see how much bigger the Rochester is!
JR Joe, I think the carb you're thinking of was a CL Rochester that turned out to be a total POS, I later bit the bullet and bought a rebuilt off eBay. Well worth it!
Yes, either the Merc intake (with minor relieving) or one of a couple of adapters are needed for the Rochester. I went with this one below, because I like that it keeps the barrels separate (the Speedway adapter is cheaper and easier, but creates a common plenum between the carb and intake). I had to accurately drill and tap a hole in the manifold for this one, was not too hard. After the pic was taken, I blended the top of the manifold to make a smoother transition. If I were to start over, I'd get the Canadian aluminum Merc manifold. You can see how much bigger the Rochester is!
JR Joe, I think the carb you're thinking of was a CL Rochester that turned out to be a total POS, I later bit the bullet and bought a rebuilt off eBay. Well worth it!