I am wanting to get a used 351w and swap into my 87 f150 but I'm needing better than 13mpg city to even consider budget for upgrades after motors purchased is 1500$

 

With your set up putting a 351 is not going to give you much better than what we were talking about last night, why not take your $1500 and buy a 4cyl daily driver to get back and forth to school with and use your truck to play on the weekends? I can pretty much buy any car or truck I want to in the world, and I use a '03 Explorer for my daily driver and use my trucks on the weekends for camping, hunting and fishing trips, my trucks only average around 15 on the road and my Explorer runs about 18 going back and forth to work. You really need to think this out.

 

I'm a truck guy I'm just looking at my options but u won't cetch me in 4cyl any time soon. Plus I'm just wanting a bit more power out of my truck.

 

Sorry buddy, but power and mileage don't go together, you have 4.11 gears, 4 speed standard and 33 inch tires, now you want to add more power to the equation and get better gas mileage. I fully understand being a truck guy, I own 3 3/4 tons two with diesels and 1 with a 460, 2 of them are 4x4's all of them have 4.11 gears in them. I also own 3 explorers as well as an aerostar AWD van, if I could find the right 4 cyl daily driver I would jump on it, that would allow me to save more money to put in my trucks. By the way, just curious how old are you?

 

15 ain't gonna happen, especially with oversize tires. The gearing gets you back into the right rpms for the 33s, but they're still heavier tires.

I know for a fact that my stock 351 in the Centurion will get 17+ highway, in town driving is much worse. So much worse, in fact, that I've never bothered to figure it out.

All that being said, having an econobox can be good and bad. What you'd have to figure out is how much fuel you'd be saving by having the econobox, and compare that against the cost of having the econobox (insurance, registration, excise taxes, etc). If the cost of having the econobox doesn't exceed what you're saving on fuel by driving it instead of the truck, it isn't worth having.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with a 4 cyl econobox. I prefer to drive my truck too, but if the wife and I are going out of town, we take her Impala, that gets close to 30 MPG highway.

 

Power and MPG don't mix well. Not to mention that you want those things out of a truck.

You'd be better off using your $1500 to buy a vehicle that gets better MPGs to drive to school/work and use the truck for play and hauling duty. If you don't like little cars, you could possibly think about buying a cheap Ranger. It's not as much truck as what you've got, but a 3.0L V6 ranger will get you probably 23-24+ highway and 17+ "city" driving. Or a 4 cylinder Ranger may get you 25+ (can get even better highway MPG depending on speed and driving style, I've seen as much as 27-29 MPG highway with some people's I4 Rangers) on the highway and 18+ "city" MPG.

 

Pipe dream. I can't break 15mpg city in my Mercury and that is a 4.6L 2wd bone stock car that I drive like a grandma. You'll have to deal with crappy mileage if a second more economical vehicle is out of the question.

 

Nothing wrong with an economy car man. Cheap to fill up and maintain, and then you'll have extra money to throw at the truck. My F250 stays parked unless I need it, my commute everyday is 62 miles round trip. My WRX gets around 28mpg highway when I drive it conservatively, and my Mazda 323 gets right around 38-41. Not buying fuel all the time is nice, and not being broke all the time from buying fuel is nice.

Trucks are cool, no doubt about it, but in todays world function is more important than form. 15 mpg city out of a fullsize truck is not going to happen.

 

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with saving a little money. My truck is down at the moment (engine rebuild), but I'm splitting up the driving between the truck and an Accord Sport. I absolutely love driving my truck, but I'm commuting to college in the small car for part of the time to save on fuel (plus it's easier to park...). It gets about 30 MPG most of the time or up to 34-38 if I really try with the 2.4l, and it's a quick little car and entertaining with the 6-speed manual and an 8k redline.

The money I save can go into my truck, buying tools, and having fun.

I wouldn't give the truck up for anything, but it helps the wallet not to have to drive it all the time. Plus running a modified carbureted 460 only gets me about 11.5-12 MPG highway, 7-8 city, and 10 MPG on all the 45 MPG hilly backroads.

 

I'm with the OP here, IMO getting another car for economy doesn't work, the cost of the car, insurance etc. makes the few bucks on fuel not worth it. The only thing that changes this is if your economy vehicle has multiple uses that you can't use the truck for. Like for me it's a small old Jeep, so I can go places the crew cab is just too big for and drive it to the store when working on the truck.

As for 15mpg city, maybe, but overall sure I don't see that being too hard either, 33" tires don't have to be a killer, it depends on the tire. 33x14-15 bias ply super swamper boggers at 10psi, uhm yeah not gunna get 15. But a rather narrow, not too knobby E rated all terrain pumped up up to 65psi, sure.

His killer is gear ratio, a 4 speed, 4.11, 33" combo is never going to get great mileage. The engine is just spinning too fast at speed. I get the impression that the OP wants a truck truck if you know what I mean. My suggestion is find a used engine and tranny combo in or out of a F250HD or F350 with a FI 351/5.8 and a 5 speed(ZF5) And swap in the engine and tranny at the same time. Fill everything with synthetic oils as thin as you're comfortable with and see what ya got, I think it'd get there.

Then look into hypermiling, a good combo can get you 15 highway, and maybe 15 overall, but 15 city is all about how you drive.

Better yet I know you don't want to hear it but another truck might be better. For instance a F250 with a 5.8/5 speed instead of paying for the truck or drivetrain for the F150 just buy the truck and make it your truck. Only thing that wouldn't make it a better choice is if you have a short box regular cab and like it. If so making a F250 RCLB a short box is a better path then building up a F150.

If something cheaper and easier is in order just find a M5OD to swap in, that will do it. Small block ZF5s are hard to come by.

Lot's of options but not much info here to go off of. Got the 4.9 now or something?

My personal choice if I wanted a high mileage F150 would be a 5.0, M5OD, 3.55s and 35x10.5R17 combo. Easier to get more power out of a 5.0 then more mileage out of a 5.8.

I however don't want a F150, I roll a diesel as a daily and my choice is IDI diesel, 5 speed, 4.11 gears and 37x12.5s in a crew cab 4wd. What mileage I get I can't be sure my odometer isn't accurate yet but basic guesstimates put me in the 16 area.

 

My truck hardly ever sees double digit fuel mileage from all the short trips it makes and when it does see it, it hardly ever breaks 12 MPG. And as much as I love driving the truck, I'd never be able to afford driving it everywhere I go.

I leased a 2012 Focus for my college commute and pretty consistently pulled 48 MPG on the highway, and 37 around town. The savings in fuel definitely paid back using the car and then some, as I put 15000 miles on it last year alone.

 

Let's do the math on that.

15,000 miles at 15MPG and $3.64 a gallon(WI average) would cost you $3,640
15,000 miles at an average of 42.5MPG(if we believe that number) at $3.64 a gallon cost you $1,285
A difference of $2355 saved in fuel, but....

I'll assume some round numbers on the Focus.
A really good lease deal would land about $300 a month if you put nothing down. Leases have high insurance requirements and you sound like you're under 25 so let's assume with a better then average driving record you pay $100/mo in insurance. Now we are at $400 a month. $400x12=$4800 for the focus. So you spent $4800 in an attempt to save $2355 and ended up losing $2445.

This of course assumes you didn't put a dime into maintenance of either vehicle, didn't insure the truck, nothing in the truck broke from sitting as they often do, didn't search out fuel deals, and got a good deal on the focus and insurance.

IMO would have been much better to invest in the truck to improve it's milage, value, usefulness, etc. Imagine what could you do to your truck with an extra $2500? It would have certainly gotten you a 5 speed. And after all that you had to be seen at school in a Focus instead of your truck, hard to put a dollar value on that unless we compare dates to hookers, lol.

 

Assuming your fuel figures are right, and using my particular case, your first calculation is wrong. We'd have to also use the average for my truck, which is about 10MPG.

The first dollar amount should be $5,460. Making a larger difference of $4175.

My payments and insurance combined for the car is also only $325. $325x12months=$3900. That's a nearly $300 savings, and the car is warrantied for the duration of time that I have it. Money well spent.

 

I made three choices to figure the number at 15MPG. One, you said the mileage figures you posted were all short in town trips, the worse kind for mileage. And that even so the best you've seen is 12. So if we figure in more highway mileage the bare minimum is 12. Two, I assumed you'd do some work to improve that, so 15 isn't a terrible stretch. Three, the OP mentioned 15. So I stick with my figures there.

That would be a fantastic deal, FWIW I don't believe it. I sold cars for Ford for a long time up until the 2008 crash. Looking up the numbers my argument got better and $325/mo total(payment + insurance) can't be true unless you(or your parents) put a lot down and it's on there policy. Then of course we have to figure in the down. The minimum down in 2012 for a 4dr SE sedan is $700 and that puts the payment at $325 for a 60 month lease. A darn long time to lease, 48mo @ $378, 36mo @ $460, etc. This is also most likely a 10,000 mile a year lease, if you're putting on 15,000 a year then you're going to be required to pay a mileage fee when you turn it in. That fee is somewhere between 10-20 cents per mile, if we figure 15 cents at an extra 5000 miles a year that's a $750 a year ding. Plus insurance, leases require full coverage and a very low deductible, those policies are pricey. Again I'll stick with my numbers and argument.

Down + Payment + Mileage + Insurance = way more then any potential savings on the truck even if we lower the MPG and add in maintenance and tires and such on the truck. Plus in the end of the lease what do you have, a bill and that is all. Put the money in the truck and you have a truck that's worth more.

But ... Even if we go with your numbers it's a wash, you basically break even just to drive a focus instead of your truck.


The only way an extra car for economy works out to save money is if it's older, paid for in full, somewhat valuable as a classic, and still gets good mileage. Say something like a 260Z. Pay let's say $2500 for a decent one, get mid 20s mileage, pay minimum insurance, and sell it again for $3500 cause you gave it some TLC and it went up in value.

 

Here is how I go about it: Drive my truck happily, daily. When the clerk at the gas station asks if I want a receipt, say no and go about my day with an ignorant smile on my face.