We just bought our first 5er, 2013 Vengeance 399 Toy Hauler. Very excited!! Here are my questions. It has the Trailair pin box and I will be converting to goose neck using a B&W turnover ball hitch. Since I haven't ordered the goose neck converter yet, do I need to order the cushioned version? Would the "double cushioning" be a problem or a plus? How do I measure to see if I need to order the offset version (I don't have the long bed on my 350)? Thanks in advance!!

 

Does the trailer manufacturer approve use of the goose converter? They put additonal stress on the trailer frame thet it wasn't made for. And most 5th wheel frames aren't overbuilt. If they approve it, then go for it. If not, I'd suggest looking into the B+W comapanion 5th wheel adapter. With a shortbed you're going to want some kind of slider.

 

You need a slider with a sb. That toy hauler will not be easy to turn sharp without it

 

Here's the part I don't understand about the warranty issue. It says ANY modification will void the warranty, even a bike rack. Lippert Components, who makes the actual frame for these trailers, sells and endorses the Goose Box converter for their frame systems. Talk about a contradiction!! As far as needing a slider, there is also the offset version that gives you an extra 7.5" for SB applications.

 

Having a 5er with the Trailair and knowing how it works I don't think I would want to chance the potential issues of a gooseneck converter. Personally I think a converter would be, as the Brits say, penny wise and pound foolish. The converter may be less expensive up front, but when the pin box fractures, the frame cracks or seams open up due to stresses the trailer was not designed for, well... you won't think the savings were so good. Go for the Companion or the Companion Slider. An alternative would be to see if your dealer would swap the Trailair for a Goosebox which is a gooseneck with the air suspension in it.

Edit: The Goosebox is NOT a converter. It is a gooseneck pin box.

 

It's not about money, it's about losing the back of my truck. If you know how the Trailair works, what do you see in the operation that would make you think it wouldn't be a good idea? I do see what you mean on the Goosebox after looking more closely. It is NOT a converter....

 

I kind of get the idea you have not actually pulled that 5er yet. If you watch the action on the pin box when you are towing there is a lot of motion (parts moving). With a Companion (or other regular hitch) you are spreading the stress over the whole plate between the 5er and truck. Also, if you look at a trailer that was designed to be a gooseneck you will see quite a bit of difference in how the king pin is made and braced over a standard pin box.

Now the way I see it you are concentrating the weight on a smaller area when you use the coverter and the offset one just looks unsafe to me, whether it is or not. My 5er has a pin weight of 2100# and I want that weight as squarely over the axle as I can get it.

I have the B&W turnover in my truck too. When we were shopping for our 5er I asked every dealer we spoke with about using a converter (trying to save a buck) and not a one of them would recommend that for the reasons I stated earlier because they were not engineered to be a gooseneck. The stresses on the trailer are different.

So we went with Companion Slider. You can remove the hitch from the bed when you are not going to be towing so it is not like you are tying up the bed all the time and there are no bars across the bed like on a conventional hitch or slider.

Anyhow, that is my 2 cents.

 

You are correct, I have not. I have pulled gooseneck cattle trailers, so I do have experience with those. I appreciate your 2 cents worth!

 

I think the issue here is there is no way to be sure how modifying something will effect it's longevity and warranty issues play a role with manufacturers. There are countless statements in owner's manuals about all sorts of components that can only be used in certain ways.

In the case of a new unit still under warranty, if a problem occurred and the manufacturer became aware of any modification, the likelihood they would stand behind their product would be considerably lessened, so in a situation like this the buyer is left making the decision.

Technically, in order to void a warranty, I believe the same rules apply that are in force with automobiles. As I understand it, the manufacturer has to prove that the modification caused the damage. At the same time, if the manufacturer says "take a hike", how many folks have the time and resources to fight their decision in court? And, I know for a fact that they do say that from time to time in situations in which I feel they were simply avoiding warranty claims.

As to the pin box, I routinely see damage I believe is caused by pin box action most commonly with cracks in the filon at the front edge of the bedroom slide-out in fivers. The more "chucking" the pin box is exposed to, the more likely it is that damage will occur, again in my opinion, although it does seem obvious.

When an offset is employed it has the potential to increase the amount of force on the pin. How much and whether it will do damage to a specific rig is anyone's guess.

Another two cents worth,

Steve

 

Get the Companion Slider from B&W. You won't lose the bed of your truck when you aren't pulling the fiver.

Companion Slider - 5th Wheel Hitch | B & W Trailer Hitches

 

The only issue I see with the companion, though I may not ever reach it, is the weight rating. It's rated at 18K and the 5er I just bought is rated at 18203. I'm pretty sure the companion will handle well over it's listed rating, most quality built things like this go a minimum of 10% over their listed rating. Foreign made...I wouldn't bet on it.

 

With the reported on other RV sites of the material gauge size, weld and design quality over the past several years of Lippert framed 5ers, there is no way I would consider any kind of goose neck converter. My trailer manufacturer went with Lippert frames the last 2-1/2 years of manufacture a specifically stated that those as well as their own manufacture frames would not be warranted if you chose to use a converter. Several of those Lippert frames have had weld as well as material failures without the added stress of that lengthened lever arm. Comparing a goose neck trailer that was designed for that bed mounted hitch to an RV that was designed for a conventional 5th wheel type hitch is like that proverbial apple and orange. With the exception of the fact that they are both trailers, there is no comparison.

But with that said - it IS your trailer and decision though only a written OK from the trailer manufacturer would be my final decision decider.

This is a B&W Companion, the slider unfortunately was not available when this was purchased. It 'disappears' into my garage when not being used:

 

I just re-checked the Goose Box, endorsed by Lippert, it's only rated at 16k.

 

I would encourage in the strongest sense attention be paid to the preceding comment regarding the quality of Lippert products.

Steve

 

I took a peek at the stated specs on that 5er. Empty it is 12.4K. It says 5.7K cargo capacity for a GVWR of 18.2K. This is just a question, but do you think that you would actually hit that amount? I mean the garage is only so big so you can only fit so much in it. I have an Arctic Cat Prowler (curb weight 1.1K) and given its size you could get it and maybe a couple of dirt bikes in there. You might get 3 ATVs in there for perhaps 2.1K combined. Anyhow, just saying, I kind of doubt you would hit the max.

And as a reassurance the Companion hitches are 100% made in the USA. They are made in Humboldt, KS. If you are a Companion owner they offer free camping there if you would like to take a tour of the factory.