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Anyone out there with 4.30 or 4.56 gears?

 
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:38 PM
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Anyone out there with 4.30 or 4.56 gears?

I'm new here at FTE, and would like to hear from some of you guys..

I have a F250 v10 (details in my sig) with 3.73LS gears.. Currently I get about 13.2-13.5 mpg as a consistent average on a tank, empty of coarse. I get about 14.2 at 65mph and I've seen as high as 16.7 on the freeway doing about 82mph (I run about 2000rpm at 70). I use my truck for a lot of towing; Utility trailer for quads, Flatbed for Front loaders and Bobcat, 7.5k Car Hauler, 11k Cement Trailer full of tools, and a 14.5k 5er. It does pretty well even with the 3.73's and I get about 9-10mpg loaded on flat grounds, pulling hills in CO or on I-75 heading down to Florida its gotten as low as 7. I'd like to hear from you guys with higher gears and hear your experiences towing, and you're mpg loaded and unloaded. I'd also like to hear what RPM's you guys are running at different speeds, I prefer to stay in the lower rpm range because I do a lot of commuting and unloaded driving and its easier on the engine.

I'm thinking about contacting Mike at 5 star to hook me up with a tune, Thanks in advance guys!

-Jared
_______________
'02 F250 Crew Cab, Lariat, Short Box, Fx4, v10, Auto, SRW, 3.73LS
275k and never left me stranded

Future mods: Nitto Terra Grapplers, 18' Wheels, Billet Grille, 05-07 Headlights, 2012 Tailgate & Taillights, 4in cat-back exhaust w/ 5in MBRP Tip, Ultragauge, Kenwood DDX470, 5 Star Tune
 
  #2  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:47 PM
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I have a 2000 F250 (See Sig for all specs) with 4.30 gears. With the E4OD transmission, at 75 MPH I'm pushing right at 2500 RPM. I just took a trip with Boy Scouts from Louisiana to Galatin Tn. 1267 miles round trip and I got 14 MPG out of state running between 70 and 75. That is with the performance tune from Mike. I had about 300 pounds of gear in the bed and 4 scouts riding in the truck. If you are seeing 16, you are doing better than me. The tune I got from Mike helps me pull my camper better by getting it into overdrive instead of running 2500-3000 without overdrive. Mike knows his stuff and its well worth the money. One of the mods I did that is not listed is I cut the radiator support behind the grill on the drivers side where the air intake is to increase airflow into the Banks Ram Air. Not sure if it helps but it sure can't hurt. Oh and towing my camper on flat ground; 8 -8.5 MPG and with hills; 7 MPG.

Oops my bad. My sig doesn't have my specs. Banks Torque Tubes, Banks Ram Air, 87 Octane Tunes from Mike.
 
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:18 PM
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14 mpg isn't bad at all, I know the v10 likes to rev but the only reason I like the 3.73's is because it keeps the rpm's nice and low, therefore less wear and tear on the engine when you're unloaded. I do ALOT of driving, proly about 40% with a trailer though. As far as pulling hills go I do about 2 trips a year, one to Florida and back with my 5er (2500 miles), and one hunting in the mountains in CO with my 26' Car Hauler and truck loaded to the max (21,000 GCWR). Thats where the 3.73's fall short, not bad with my 5er though. Gearing up to 4.10's at least would most likely be in my best interest. Killing my MPG is my only concern because its halfway decent, especially for the v10.

Also if anyone has experiences with Mikes tunes I would like to hear from you, tell me what your experiences are with them and what tune(s) you have or if it helps your MPG at all

-Jared
 
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:37 PM
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I'll chime in.

See my sig for truck details. I have a 4000# slide-in truck camper. The weight itself isn't much but the overall x-sec is quite large - lots of air to push out of the way when driving at highway speed.

Last weekend, I hauled the camper from 3000' elevation to 7500', 250 miles round trip. Including 2 or 3 decent grades of 6-7%. Ambient temps were 80-100 degrees. I run Mike's 87 octane tow/haul tune when I haul the camper and it makes a HUGE difference. Anyway, I got 8.6mpg for the total trip. I was very happy with that.

I really would like to re-gear as funds allow. Either 4.30 or 4.56. 3.73 are doing the job for now, though. As for RPM, I'm of the opinion that its not necessarily the RPM that matter for optimal mpg. It's how much the throttle has to be depressed to achieve a given RPM. For example, I could drive my truck around empty at 45-50 in OD. But I'll be lugging the engine and mileage will suffer (I know this from experience). If I pull it down to D at those speeds, RPM will be higher but my mileage will improve markedly.

When I'm hauling the camper, if I'm under 45mph or so, I will usually pull it into 2nd gear. It's much happier at the higher engine speed and my mileage is better.

My $.02.
 
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:51 PM
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Thanks for sharing, and I know what you mean that RPM dosent necessarily have to do with mpg, however I do believe that speed has a major factor to do with mph, due to aerodynamics and the force applied to make the truck glide down the road easier. For instance my truck gets around 14-14.5 at 70-75 mph and I have tested it on multiple long trips not just the lie-o-meter. If I kick the speed up to about 80-82 on the freeway I have averaged as high as 16.8 (believe it or not) and that's having to slow down to 60 a couple times for construction zones.

As soon as funds allow I'm gonna give Mike a call and get set up with some tunes, I hear nothing but good things about his customer service and software.

-Jared
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:23 AM
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Somewhere I read that 48 MPH is the optimal speed for the best MPG. For every 10 MPH over that you lose roughly 1 MPG due to wind resistance. My truck gets 10 MPG in town, 7-8 towing a 6000# bumper pull trailer. I'm looking to increase that by adding a camper shell to the bed of the truck to help get the air over the top of the trailer. Lower RPMs would help my truck considerably but you have to keep in mind that these V10's make their power at higher RPMs. I had a 96 Bronco that got 10 MPG in town and 13 MPG on the highway. I sold it to get this truck so I could pull a camper. For me it was an even swap so instead of paying a $500 a month truck note, I just pay for gas. I've actually had the accelerator pedal on the floor once while pulling the camper at 75 MPH while trying to pass another vehicle on an incline. Not the most comforting thing in the world to realize picking up speed quickly is no longer an option; but then again; I shouldn't have been going over 70 with a trailer in the first place.

Oh and welcome to the forum!
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:08 PM
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It sounds to me you are doing great , I would not change a thing if I were you , why?

First of all, the amount of weight you are towing (14 k 5er ) .

2003 Ford Towing Guide (page 19, fifth wheel towing ) says your truck configuration (F250,CC,V10,3.73 axle and 4x4) is rated for maximum fifth wheel tow capacity: 10,200 Lbs and GCWR is 17,000 Lbs ) . It is surprising to me that the weakest link (tranny) is still OK.

My 4.3 rear end runs 2000 RPM @60mph . I get 14 mpg at highway-only @ 57-60 mph speed. Since I never drove @70 mph , do not know the consumption at higher speed (if it was more mpg at higher speed ,it would be hard to explain because it would be against the conservation of energy since higher speed represents higher kinetic energy level and it has to be more fuel to provide that extra energy ?? , may be some other factors in play ??)

My towing (12K 5er) around 9-9.5 mpg at 55 mph speed with minimum use of brakes (1mpg less in mountainous terrain).

You are doing great,
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfboro View Post
It sounds to me you are doing great , I would not change a thing if I were you , why?

First of all, the amount of weight you are towing (14 k 5er ) .

2003 Ford Towing Guide (page 19, fifth wheel towing ) says your truck configuration (F250,CC,V10,3.73 axle and 4x4) is rated for maximum fifth wheel tow capacity: 10,200 Lbs and GCWR is 17,000 Lbs ) . It is surprising to me that the weakest link (tranny) is still OK.

My 4.3 rear end runs 2000 RPM @60mph . I get 14 mpg at highway-only @ 57-60 mph speed. Since I never drove @70 mph , do not know the consumption at higher speed (if it was more mpg at higher speed ,it would be hard to explain because it would be against the conservation of energy since higher speed represents higher kinetic energy level and it has to be more fuel to provide that extra energy ?? , may be some other factors in play ??)

My towing (12K 5er) around 9-9.5 mpg at 55 mph speed with minimum use of brakes (1mpg less in mountainous terrain).

You are doing great,
10,200 lbs is what is rated for conventional hitch towing, and its 14,500 lbs max for 5th wheel. And I have suspension mods so it can easily handle that kind of weight. I know i've already got a good thing going, but I just wanted to hear from some of the guys with higher gear ratios to see what kind of mpg they are getting and how they like them compared to my 3.73's
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:29 PM
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You can not dispute Ford Motor Company Towing guide , it is not a smart thing to do . I own a copy of 2003 Ford Towing guide ,and I wrote it as it appears in the guide , 10,200 Lbs 5er , period. For your information , same guide (published by Ford Motor Company in 2003 , page -19, conventional trailer also 10,200 Lbs for your truck configuration).

Any modification you did does not increase "legal" towing capacity.It is not about what you feel , it is about what is rated by the manufacturer . If you get involved in an accident with personal injury/fatality , the first thing cops and lawyers to look at -your load and factory rating .
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfboro View Post
You can not dispute Ford Motor Company Towing guide , it is not a smart thing to do . I own a copy of 2003 Ford Towing guide ,and I wrote it as it appears in the guide , 10,200 Lbs 5er , period. For your information , same guide (published by Ford Motor Company in 2003 , page -19, conventional trailer also 10,200 Lbs for your truck configuration).

Any modification you did does not increase "legal" towing capacity.It is not about what you feel , it is about what is rated by the manufacturer . If you get involved in an accident with personal injury/fatality , the first thing cops and lawyers to look at -your load and factory rating .
How will they know if you do or do not have 4.30 gears?
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:03 PM
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Your VIN has numerous codes , and one for factory installed axle ratio .

Even if you change your axle , you can not change your VIN , nor you can
change the manufacturer sticker at your driver door frame (by the way, that is another location for factory axle ratio) .

I am not sure what is the legal consequence , if you switch to 4.3 or higher . That is a good question.

I am just trying to point out some facts to you hoping that it helps. That is all. Enjoy your truck , have a safe drive.
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfboro View Post
Your VIN has numerous codes , and one for factory installed axle ratio .

Even if you change your axle , you can not change your VIN , nor you can
change the manufacturer sticker at your driver door frame (by the way, that is another location for factory axle ratio) .

I am not sure what is the legal consequence , if you switch to 4.3 or higher . That is a good question.

I am just trying to point out some facts to you hoping that it helps. That is all. Enjoy your truck , have a safe drive.
Thanks for the heads up. My dad bought my truck new and passed it down to me when it was his turn for a new one and we haven't had any problems as far as overloading or anything like that. To be honest I'm surprised that the 4r100 has lasted 275k and still shifts smooth and hasn't had any problems (knock on wood). When we bought our 5er General RV here in Michigan recommended a gear change, but said it would be fine and work without it so I haven't thought anything of it. Only reason I would get a gear change is because it would be easier on the drivetrain
 
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:09 PM
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I have to correct my earlier statement. I just double-checked 17 number VIN decoder info. It appeared that VIN does not have the axle code . I am pretty sure the drivers side door frame sticker has the axle code . Here are the codes;

Axle Type
31 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-250/Excursion
C1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-250/Excursion
32 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-250
C2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-250/Excursion
33 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-250
C3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-250/Excursion
36 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-250
C6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-250
41 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
42 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
43 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
46 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
D6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 (single rear wheels)
61 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
62 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
63 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
66 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
F6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 (dual rear wheels)
81 — 3.73 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E1 — 3.73 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
82 — 4.10 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E2 — 4.10 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
83 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
86 — 4.56 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
E6 — 4.56 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
88 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
EW — 4.88 limited slip, F-350 Chassis Cab, narrow frame (dual rear wheels)
G3 — 4.30 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
73 — 4.30 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
78 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
G8 — 4.88 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
75 — 5.38 non-limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
G5 — 5.38 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
GW — 4.10 limited slip, F-450 Chassis Cab
98 — 4.88 non-limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
K8 — 4.88 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
95 — 5.38 non-limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
K5 — 5.38 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab
KW — 4.10 limited slip, F-550 Chassis Cab

Transmission Type
E — Four-speed automatic overdrive (4R100), gasoline engines, F-Series/Excursion
9 — Four-speed automatic overdrive (4R100), diesel engine, F-Series/Excursion
6 — Six-speed manual, Dana ZF (M6HD-6), F-Series
5 — Six-speed manual, F-Series (5.4L, 6.8L Gas)
2 — Five-speed manual, F-Series (5.4L, 6.8L Gas/LPG), Mexico only
.......................
Enjoy your truck !
 
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:02 AM
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I'm sorry but I have a tough time buying the OPs story about it towing a 14k lb fifth wheel just fine with a V10 @ 275k miles and 4R100 sending the power out back to a set of 3.73s. You my friend must always tow with a tail wind and down hill!

I've been there and done that! I went from a 6500lb travel trailer to an 8500lb travel trailer to a 10k lb fifth wheel and now to a 14,500 lb fifth wheel. I also double towed a 20 ft Yarcraft boat, about 3500-4000k lbs behind all but the last camper. What I found was with the travel trailers is it was good and got the job done. Once I moved to my first fifth wheel, it was good by itself but once I hooked the boat up it struggled if I hand any adverse conditions at all, ie wind, hills or otherwise. FYI, I have had a modified Y pipe from day one. Upon buying the first fifth wheel and noticing it struggling I contacted mike @ 5-star for some custom tunes. They certainly made it better but it still wasn't enough. Finally I overheated the trans slightly backing into a camp spot uphill and said the heck with it, dropped it off for a full trans check, torque converter replacement with a heavy duty version, and 4.56s into both ends. What a difference for the better! I'm impressed with it at this point. I will say even with all of this, hooked up to the new fifth wheel (first time last weekend) is still a heck of a load. I wouldn't want any more back there simply from a handling point. The power is on tap for the most part. I did pull two hills that are 6-8% ish and are about a mile long. Hit the bottom at 65-70 mph and crested the top at 60 mph. If these hills had been a few miles instead of one, it would have likely required a 2nd gear steady pull at 50-55 mph. Its not bad by any means however the previous owner of the camper (a friend of mine) has a 6.4L Powerstroke with a Spartan tuner and that truck doesn't even grunt with the same camper! I've ridden with him and it absolutely blows my mind how much power that thing makes!

Now, with the above said, there's one thing to take note of, and that is what my truck is rate for towing wise. With the 3.73s it was rated for 10,200 lbs with a fifth wheel. Remember the first fifth wheel was about 10k and it did alright until I hooked another 3-4k lbs to the back and then I struggle power wise. Maybe Ford Motor Co actually had something in mind with their tow ratings? I then switch to 4.56s and with my larger tires the overall ratio is slightly deeper than a stock 4.30 geared truck which is rated at 14,500lb for fifth wheel towing. This is basically what I'm towing now and as I said it's pretty decent but probably at the upper end which is a bit interesting since it fall right on with what the towing guide says. Just food for thought. One persons opinion of "tows good" and another's are often times two different views. My buddy with the tuned 6.4L would probably kick dirt at mine if I told him it towed that big camper good!
 
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by SLE View Post
I'm sorry but I have a tough time buying the OPs story about it towing a 14k lb fifth wheel just fine with a V10 @ 275k miles and 4R100 sending the power out back to a set of 3.73s. You my friend must always tow with a tail wind and down hill!

I've been there and done that! I went from a 6500lb travel trailer to an 8500lb travel trailer to a 10k lb fifth wheel and now to a 14,500 lb fifth wheel. I also double towed a 20 ft Yarcraft boat, about 3500-4000k lbs behind all but the last camper. What I found was with the travel trailers is it was good and got the job done. Once I moved to my first fifth wheel, it was good by itself but once I hooked the boat up it struggled if I hand any adverse conditions at all, ie wind, hills or otherwise. FYI, I have had a modified Y pipe from day one. Upon buying the first fifth wheel and noticing it struggling I contacted mike @ 5-star for some custom tunes. They certainly made it better but it still wasn't enough. Finally I overheated the trans slightly backing into a camp spot uphill and said the heck with it, dropped it off for a full trans check, torque converter replacement with a heavy duty version, and 4.56s into both ends. What a difference for the better! I'm impressed with it at this point. I will say even with all of this, hooked up to the new fifth wheel (first time last weekend) is still a heck of a load. I wouldn't want any more back there simply from a handling point. The power is on tap for the most part. I did pull two hills that are 6-8% ish and are about a mile long. Hit the bottom at 65-70 mph and crested the top at 60 mph. If these hills had been a few miles instead of one, it would have likely required a 2nd gear steady pull at 50-55 mph. Its not bad by any means however the previous owner of the camper (a friend of mine) has a 6.4L Powerstroke with a Spartan tuner and that truck doesn't even grunt with the same camper! I've ridden with him and it absolutely blows my mind how much power that thing makes!

Now, with the above said, there's one thing to take note of, and that is what my truck is rate for towing wise. With the 3.73s it was rated for 10,200 lbs with a fifth wheel. Remember the first fifth wheel was about 10k and it did alright until I hooked another 3-4k lbs to the back and then I struggle power wise. Maybe Ford Motor Co actually had something in mind with their tow ratings? I then switch to 4.56s and with my larger tires the overall ratio is slightly deeper than a stock 4.30 geared truck which is rated at 14,500lb for fifth wheel towing. This is basically what I'm towing now and as I said it's pretty decent but probably at the upper end which is a bit interesting since it fall right on with what the towing guide says. Just food for thought. One persons opinion of "tows good" and another's are often times two different views. My buddy with the tuned 6.4L would probably kick dirt at mine if I told him it towed that big camper good!
I dropped a new engine in at 104k, and injector dropped into the cylinder wall because the injector wasnt installed properly from the factory and tore the engine all to kingdom come. So my truck runs and feels like new. Trust me it pulls and handles the load fine, on my way to Flordia with my 5er down I-75 we were in the right line doing 75-80 the the entire way no problem, and I guess it was just a stroke of good luck that my 4r100 has lasted 275k, obviously it will need an overhaul eventually but it shifts good and strong for right now. I'm not looking for you guys to criticize me I'm just looking at real world numbers you guys are getting with those ratios and how you like them..
 

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