I am trying to figure out if an Aurora 3000 would physically fit in place of the TE06H on my Gen II Banks Sidewinder kit. I found a pretty good spec sheet for the Borg Warner S200 version that is equivalent to the A2000, and its dimensions are very close to the Banks charger. Now I would like to see if the A3000 might also fit. I am looking for the dimension between the cold air inlet and the exhaust outlet, the overall diameter of the compressor housing, the diameter of the cold air inlet, and the diameter of the compressor outlet. Oddly enough these specifications are not readily available on the web.

According to the ATS website they will machine a port for a 38 mm wastegate into any of their exhaust housings for a 125$ charge. This could potentially solve the delemma of using a non-gated Cummins A3000 that has the straight V band outlet like the Banks. Anyone happen to know the V band discharge diameter on the Dodge version? (I know, wrong forum, but it should be the same as the HX35 which some of you are running). Anyone know if that 38 mm wastegate would be appropriate for the A3000 on an IDI?

BTW I kinda had to laugh at myself for thinking that I could machine out the WG'd TE06H exhaust housing and use that, as it is joined to the center section with a large V band, not a bolted flange! The compressor housing is fastened with a huge snap ring... totally different turbo altogether.

Just in case anyone else out there is curious about the Gen II Banks sidewinder dimensions, I measured roughly 9" inlet to outlet, roughly 7" diameter overall compressor housing diameter, air inlet is 3" diameter, exhaust is a 2.5" diwnpipe with a straight V band, and the charge outlet is 2.5".

 

I think it would, at very worst, buy the turbo, and then you be out for a set of castings if it doesnt work. Im pretty sure the Mitsu frame is pretty close to the T3/S200/S300 frame, I dont see any issues myself. I wouldnt hesitate to try it if I had a banks setup.

 

I'm most concerned about the compressor housing diameter. Looks pretty damn big when it's sitting on the 093 kit. The Banks cast up pipe is shorter, but the compressor side is nested in the engine valley, so clearance might be fine. If it's similar, I will go with the A3000, otherwise the A2000 looks like an easy bolt in if I could still get ATS to machine in a WG port for me...

Edit: stolen picture of Banks on Snaponprifile's engine. Looks like you could get away with a little bigger compressor!

 

The biggest part is a 4" radius from the center of the wheel.

 

Thanks. That helps. It's actually about the same size as the sidewinder then. It should fit no problem. Not saying it would match up with the Banks' weird pressure chamber or air intake set-up, but it's not like I want to use those anyway!

Which A3000 did you buy? As in for which application? I'm thinking the compressor housing outlets are different, as are the exhaust housings, but you fitted yours to a machined 093, so did it even come with an exhaust housing? Thinking I should order the 12V Cummins version and have ATS mill the WG port for me, does that seem right for what I'm trying to do?

 

What are you planning for fuel??

Honestly, I wouldnt worry about a WG if you use the .85 housing...Look at NMB2's setup. He has a little bigger exhaust wheel, but I dont think it will make much of a difference with the fuel we run.

I think the Cummins setup will work just fine. Be a trailblazer man, make it happen, try it out.... Thats as much advice I can give on the subject.

 

Thanks. I think I'll try the .85 A/R without a waste gate. I was thinking about the .76 A/R because I am mostly interested in throttle response at low to mid rpm's and good efficiency in double overdrive, but if xcite is seeing boost at or before 1800 rpm's that's probably just right. I am guessing by the specs of his build he has a .85 A/R.

I plan to run a 90cc pump for a while and see what I can accomplish at that fuel level. I don't pull extremely heavy loads up mountains, so that might be enough for how I use my truck. I know that Ba££s out is kind of the "in" thing, but yourself and others pretty well have that covered, and like I said I am building for low end 4x4 grunt, ability to hold gear in OD and double OD, and of course off-the-line driving fun. Huge HP at WOT isn't really needed, but if 90cc's ain't cutin' it, I know what to do...

 

The exhaust housing on my turbo is the ATS 093 waste gated housing which is .82 I believe, but has been machined out to fit the A3000, so I am not sure what the final a/r ended up being.

 

He didn't order application specific charger. I put those together for them "off the menu" so to speak.

 

Technically the A/R isnt changed, that is a static measurement based on the housing shape. However, as long as your A/R on your housing is "big enough", running a larger wheel in the same housing will cause the exhaust gases to hit the wheel more tangentially (not to mention the "extra" leverage from longer blades), which equates to better spool characteristics because it acts like a smaller housing, and generally, because the wheel is bigger, it will still flow more gas.

 

A/R (Area/Radius) describes a geometric characteristic of all compressor and turbine housings. Technically, it is defined as:
the inlet (or, for compressor housings, the discharge) cross-sectional area divided by the radius from the turbo centerline to the centroid of that area (see Figure 2.).

Figure 2. Illustration of compressor housing showing
A/R characteristic

The A/R parameter has different effects on the compressor and turbine performance, as outlined below.
Compressor A/R - Compressor performance is comparatively insensitive to changes in A/R. Larger A/R housings are sometimes used to optimize performance of low boost applications, and smaller A/R are used for high boost applications. However, as this influence of A/R on compressor performance is minor, there are not A/R options available for compressor housings.
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker boost rise. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel more tangentially, which reduces the ultimate flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.

 

For those of you who may also be thinking of adapting a Cummins A3000 to a Banks kit... consider the following:

1) The holset hx35 that the Aurora replaces has a straight V band like the Banks' TE06H, but it is an odd size, and intended only for mounting the Cummins specific cast downpipe elbow. The tuner crowd solution for the hx35 is to buy a weld-on 3" V band flange, grind down the slightly smaller holset flange until the 3" flange fits over it, then weld. Not a terribly difficult modification, but it can't really be used as-is.

2) If you do as described above, you then have the problem of no available 3" mandrel bent down pipe, so you will have to fabricate one. The Banks pipe is 2.5", and no upgrades that I know of. Because Banks squeezed the DP toward the passenger side of the up pipe casting, it has to be fitted tightly against the engine, especially when increasing the size to 3". Expect that more than usual firewall work may be required, and/or a small body lift. (Not done this yet, just an observation). The DP issue may be a serious drawback to adapting this set-up.

This makes me wonder if a Cummins A3000 with the Cummins specific 3" elbow could be fitted to the ATS 093 kit, since the DP elbow is the limiting factor in terms of availability. Clearly more research needed.