Please forgive me if this is a stupid question, but i'm away from home, bored, and can't go look for myself. I searched online but to no avail.

I've got it in my head to swap cams in my 79. I'm hoping to do a manifold and carb here shortly and thought that a cam might be within reach as well.

can you get the front timing cover off without having to drop the front of the oil pan? My oil pan gasket appears to be leak free and having to mess with it would be a deal breaker on the cam swap.

on a side note ... anyone have any input on the two summit cams available? or know how they compare to the factory bumpstick?

just thinking that cam technology has come a long way since 1979 and there has to be a good upgrade with minimal trade offs.

its a farm truck and gets used to haul stuff. usually a couple times a year ive got close to 9000lbs of hay in tow, so a cam that makes power from 2500-3500rpm seems like it would be the ticket.

thanks in advance!

 

You can get the timing cover off without dropping the pan, but you will likely tear the corners of the gasket loose and there should be some new pieces to put in with the gasket kit so its no big deal with a little sealer in there too.. If it has the stock timing gears get some for an early model 429/460 68 to 70 or 73 I think then it will be set straight up as they call it and not retarded for emissions. I don't know about how much room there is to get the cam out and back in though. I won't recommend a cam because I'd be wrong anyway but someone should have an opinion on one I'm sure.. Good luck!

 

I've used the 3500 and the 3501.
You might be okay for springs with the 3500 but I would replace them with the 3501.
Don't forget to replace the valve seals while you have the spring keepers off.

The non retarded cam was -> '71 IIRC. (correction, until 1973)

You could also go with a steel aftermarket roller, that doesn't have the crappy nylon gear.
I run a street true double roller from Cloyes. It's under $50

...Or even a post '87 OE style replacement.
EFI engines got a double row roller chain and they weren't retarded either.

 

i wonder if the single roller works with the older timing cover. that is to say, if there is a problem with the cam button being the right dimension with the thinner gearset.

kind of in a quandry with what to do. if i'm going to go to the trouble of changing the timing set then i'm swapping cams. i could probably leave well enough alone and just do the carb/intake, but with 85k on the ticker, i'm betting there is a fair amount of slop in the timing set.

i guess what bothers me about the smaller summit cam is that the lobe profile seems rather lethargic. the seat-to-seat numbers are rather wide, but the 0.05" numbers are rather narrow by comparison ... which to me indicates a very moderate ramp rate, which bothers me for some reason.

that being said, they are still probably better than the stocker .... hence my delema.

 

The stock cam is no slouch if you install it 'straight up'
You might be surprised!
The 3500 definitely 'runs out of steam' before 5k.

With that kind of mileage and age the stock plastic cam gear is SHOT.
Pull the oil pan and clean all the nylon shavings out of the pickup screen as well.
You may just save your engine...

Are you asking if the pump lobe will fit on the later cam gear?
I haven't heard of any issues.
My 9-1122 set certainly had no issues.

 

hummmm ..... not excited to drop the oil pan .... but didn't realize that it had a nylon gear.... more food for thought. would like to not frag the motor, given my choice.

yes, i was referring to the pump lobe ... guess i always called it a cam button and forget that it also runs the pump, my bad. good to know that the single roller will also work.

wondering if the 3500 would really be an upgrade.... i guess i would never run it at 5000, but towing up a hill at 4000 would be likely from time to time. the 3501 just seems a little to hot for a towing motor, from what little i know about it anyway.

thanks for the input!

 

Mike,
Ford didn't really change the grind from the earlier (and hotter) non-emissions engines, they just retarded it. (not talking solid lifter SCJ or PI engines)
If your lifters and lobes are okay you might try leaving it with 'straight up' timing.

The 3500 wasn't 'where it's at' with my 4.10 gears, stock tires and the 4 speed T-19 my truck came with.
It was not able to stretch its legs on the highway, where the stock cam did.
But I think it would be fine for what you want it to do.
Make sure your U-joints are in good shape if you have a lot of tongue weight!

Be careful with the rubber of the harmonic balancer when pulling it, and check it for scoring where the FMS rides.
Use a Speedisleeve if you have to.

Those front bolts coming up through the oil pan have bigger heads on my truck.
... just something to remember.

Check the impeller and backing plate of the water pump for rust through.
We all know farm trucks can be neglected when it comes to maintenance.

Definitely run a bead of RTV around the front and back of the water passages in the timing cover when you assemble.
A leak into the engine will really suck, when you realize all that front dress has to come back off.

Hope this helps and I don't come off like a nanny.

 

I was running the SUM-3501 cam in my 460 in a 86 F 350, the old engine was a early 70's 460 with D3VE heads, that engine was using a lot of oil, so i removed it and was going to rebuild it. When i took it apart it had 5 pistons with cracked skirts and one head bolt striped out. I had the heads rebuilt, new valves,springs,guides,p-c seals and hardened seats. Went on the look for a different new short block, every early gas 460 i got was bad same with cracked pistons, rusted cyl walls, etc. I finely picked up a EFI short block i was going to try to use. Has any one used this combo, the SUM 3501 cam, D3VE heads and EFI short bolck. Was wondering about compression ratio ? with this set up dont want to have to run Hi Test all the time?? Piston to valve clearance?? any help ?? THANKS IN ADVANCE RICK

 

thanks for all the input so far ...

i found a Lunati BareBones cam that falls in between the 3500 and 3501 cams from sumit

it is listed as a 280/290 (214/224 @0.05") .516/.543" lift.

in their catalog they say it is (a) "good cam for increased low end and midrange torque and hp over stock on 460ci motor. smooth idle"

i too think that the limited duration of the 3500 summit cam would not work well with my 4.10 gears.

still entertaining the idea of keeping the stock cam and setting it straight up. a little nervous about pulling the damper now that you said something about being careful.

thanks again for all the input!

 

I'm just saying about the harmonic, to be sure to use a center drilled bolt in the crank that has enough thread engagement and not to use a lot of heat.
If it has been on there a l o n g time it is probably stuck pretty good.

If the rubber is bad you'll need a new one anyhow.

 

I have used comp cams 34-234-4 with good power in a 18000lb Motor home and it had 487 I 493 E and LSA of 110.

 

Thanks for the input!

I have also been eyeballing that cam as well. I like that it is similar in seat-seat duration to the factory cam, but with much more aggressive lobes, indicated by the increased duration at .050".

FWIW, and anyone who may stumble in to this thread whilst researching the factory camshaft for a Ford 460, i found -- and subsequently stole -- the following information regarding the factory cam:

C8SZ-6250-A Thunder Jet and later stock hydraulic cam

256°/270° @ SAE - 193°/206° @ .050" - .253"/.278" lobe lift - .443/.487 valve lift - 110°/116° lobe centerlines - 113 LSA

Intake opens 16° BTDC
Intake closes 60° ABDC
Exhaust opens 70° BBDC
Exhaust closes 20° ATDC
Overlap 36°

Additional notes:

1) The early timing chains are straight up, so that the camshaft is installed in the engine from the factory at 110° intake centerline.

2) The retarded production timing set retards the camshaft 4 camshaft degrees, (8 crankshaft degrees), so that the camshaft is installed in the engine from the factory at 118° intake centerline.

3) The specs that Ford lists for light trucks is from 1968 to 1992 and is a superseded camshaft part number E3TZ-6250-B; used in ALL Hydraulic lifter Ford Motor Company's remanufactured 385 engines. The part number for the original 1968 to 1972 engines is C8SZ-6250-A which is the same as Ford/Lincoln Mercury passenger car engines and no different specs are listed.

 

As I said before I ran the SUM 3051 cam in my 86 350 with gas 460 I towed a 48ft fifth wheel trailer . The old 460 was using oil and was removed for rebuild. The SUM cam worked great , it will go back in the new engine block. Just was hoping someone on here would help with my question about using the EFI short block with the cam/ head combo I am using D3VE heads.

 

There's a difference in the valve cutouts on the EFI pistons.
I can't say what clearance you'll have, with that cam.
I know it works with a stock carbed top end.

Best to assemble it with a piece of solder in the cylinder and turn it over by hand first.

 

summit racing has a cam change gasket kit that has all the gaskets needed with two small front short oil pan gaskets. you take a knife and cut the old pan gasket off at the block /pan clean glue on the short new pan gaskets with RTV, and no leaks at the oil pan if done right, + all the other needed gaskets included. i have used this a number of times,even just when doing a timing chain/gear change. just good to keep know.