electric fan sensor/thermostat combo Question - Page 2 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Notices
1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

electric fan sensor/thermostat combo Question

Reply

 
 
 
  #16  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:56 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
Coincidently

Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
Typical 2-speed German fan switches (Bosch) are set for 85 (low speed) and 93 (high speed), deg. C., which is equivalent to 185 / 200 deg F., water temp going back to the engine. That sounds like what Reed has, but in the wrong location.
Ross, my controller/relay (Beuler BU5083W) has what looks like a thermocouple that senses the temperature and then sends what I assume is a variable resistance back to the controller. The controller is fixed at 195 F, and pulls on the fan when temperature rises above the setpoint. I suspected my fan was not coming on so I checked my tc and found it defective. I used boiling water, and the fan did not come on. I direct connect the fan and it runs. I will be looking for another thermocouple or controller this week. I might short the tc leads to see if that actuates the fan.
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:08 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
I will start my own application specific thread, sorry if I hijacked this thread
 
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:42 PM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1
ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NM
Posts: 23,640
ALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputation
I don't think you're off-topic. Is your engine running hot? Where is your thermocouple installed?
 
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:07 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
5 pin Beuler Fan controller

Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
I don't think you're off-topic. Is your engine running hot? Where is your thermocouple installed?
Runs hot on warmer days (28 C or sitting at idle) It has never boiled over before I noticed it was not coming on at all.. My probe was in the rad fins at top of radiator which I may relocat to bottom of radiator.

So I did some investigation into my fan control circuitry today. My manufacturer is a Beuler 5 pin relay, similar to Bosch 5 pin. There is a rheostat on the controller that allows varible temperature setting. The factory setpoint is 160 F but I set it to be slightly higher than warmed up temperature of the engine.

The wiring schematic is as follows:
Black - ground
Green - Manual switch if wanted
Yellow - Ignition power
Red - Power supply (batt)
Orange - fused common to red (fan power)
Blue - optional power to second fan (not used)
Grey - to thermoswitch
Grey/black - return from thermoswitch

The coil circuit is controlled by the thermoswitch grounding the coil circuit at setpoint temperature. The fan circuit is normally open contact.
So after some digging i found that I have lost ignition power(yellow) to my controller, which I believe is coil control power; I need to trace my wiring back to the ignition switch.
I hope this info is usefull to others, and I will update once I resolve my wiring issue.
 
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:53 PM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1
ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NM
Posts: 23,640
ALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputation
Those sensors stuck in between the fins are notorious for flaky readings, but if you don't have a bung in the tank, not much else you can do.
 
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:17 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
In line rad hose fitting

Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
Those sensors stuck in between the fins are notorious for flaky readings, but if you don't have a bung in the tank, not much else you can do.
Ross, I am also looking at a fitting to put into the inlet rad hose, although the controller manufacturer warns : " insertion of probe into radiator hose will result in serious damage" .

Similar: https://www.jegs.com/p/Flex-A-Lite/F...17700/10002/-1
 
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:16 PM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1
ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NM
Posts: 23,640
ALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputation
It sounds like the probe is not for direct insertion in water. If you stick with the controller you have, you're probably going to have to live with the probe in the fins.
 
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-14-2018, 11:31 PM
CharlieLed's Avatar
CharlieLed
CharlieLed is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: El Cajon, CA
Posts: 5,961
CharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant futureCharlieLed has a brilliant future
Looking at your pinout, it appears that your system is using a "thermoswitch" and not a thermistor. The switch is either on or off depending on the temperature it is sensing. Air temp sensors are not reliable since they are prone to rapid temperature swings when air is moving over them. If you know the temperature that this switch actuates at then you can replace it in the current system with a water temp sensor using the sleeve like I have shown in post #12 of this thread. Word of caution: if the housing of the sensor supplies ground to the circuit then the sleeve must be grounded. If the sensor has two leads then it does not need a grounded mounting.
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:01 AM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
According to the manufacurer's spec the probe is supposed to have an output of 40k-50k ohm at 70 F-80 F, mine measures 365 K ohm at room temp and decreases marginally to around 195 k ohm when heated. They say to short the leads to test the circuit. I may source a thermoswitch to replace it.
The relay pinout is :
pin 86 -coil (ignition power)
pin 85 - coil (through tc to ground)
pin 30 - power (battery)
pin 87 - n/o contact (fused power to fan)
pin 87a - n/c contact
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:29 AM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1
ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NM
Posts: 23,640
ALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputation
It sounds like when the resistance of the TC is low enough, the relay coil gets enough juice to pull in the contacts. Not a real positive way to control, I would have expected some kind of processor that interfaced the TC resistance to a logic circuit. It also sounds like a switch could replace the TC without other changes.
 
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:45 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
IC circuit

Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
It sounds like when the resistance of the TC is low enough, the relay coil gets enough juice to pull in the contacts. Not a real positive way to control, I would have expected some kind of processor that interfaced the TC resistance to a logic circuit. It also sounds like a switch could replace the TC without other changes.
Ross,

The controller is a sealed unit, and probably interprets the variable resistance of the TC. I think the thermoswitch would be more efficient, just need to find the proper one to give me about 195 F threshold. I have a Ford tempsw in the water jacket of the 5.0L that I want to replace anyway. I'll check its setpoint. My controller rheostat would be rendered useless but thats Ok.
 
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:12 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
Whats rhe status Reed?

Reed
Did you manage to get your sender installed and working?

I found my wiring issue for coil power for my fan control relay. Circuit back to working; I just need to source a temperature switch and install it inline of the rad input hose. I have opted to wire it "hot" always and controlled by grounding the coil through the temp switich.
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:16 AM
ReForder's Avatar
ReForder
ReForder is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dedham, MA
Posts: 815
ReForder has a great reputation on FTE.ReForder has a great reputation on FTE.ReForder has a great reputation on FTE.ReForder has a great reputation on FTE.
There is a really good 2 speed Porsche switch that I used with the 2 speed fan relay on my old Volvo build. I'll try to track down the part number, but it was short money (only $25-ish) and worked perfectly. If I ever did this conversion, this is what I would go with threaded into a bung in the lower radiator hose. There or the radiator tank (if possible) are the best places for those sensors.
 
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:53 PM
ALBUQ F-1's Avatar
ALBUQ F-1
ALBUQ F-1 is online now
postin' fool
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NM
Posts: 23,640
ALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputationALBUQ F-1 has a superb reputation
Originally Posted by ReForder View Post
There is a really good 2 speed Porsche switch that I used with the 2 speed fan relay on my old Volvo build. I'll try to track down the part number, but it was short money (only $25-ish) and worked perfectly. If I ever did this conversion, this is what I would go with threaded into a bung in the lower radiator hose. There or the radiator tank (if possible) are the best places for those sensors.
Porsche uses off the shelf Bosch switches, so look for one for a VW, it will be half the price of the same piece for a Porsche.
 
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:50 PM
tip49's Avatar
tip49
tip49 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,188
tip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to beholdtip49 is a splendid one to behold
Not all TC's are the same

So I bought a thermocouple/temperature sensor probe for my electric fan controller, because my original packed it in. Well the new sensor has a much lower cold resistance value( 450 ohms) so the means the fan comes on when the engine is cold. Of course the manufacturer does not give you that information in their specifications. The old thermoprobe had a resissitance that was in the K ohms and the fan coil controller would not actuate until in dropped to about 40Kohms.

I'll have to get a temperature switch that picks up at just above engine operating temp (193 F) so that means on at 200 F and off at ideally 190 F.

I think I may have to go with the inline hose adapter that alllows for probe insertion but most adapters come with a 1/4" npt threaded port and most tempswitches come with 3/8", unless someone has more compatible manufacturer's information.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jakegaisser
Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L)
8
12-10-2017 07:33 PM
Amish65F100
Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460)
3
07-20-2017 02:06 PM
smitty14
2004 - 2008 F150
3
06-16-2017 10:17 AM
DawnPatrol
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
5
07-09-2016 09:12 PM
88david
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
1
04-13-2016 09:07 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: electric fan sensor/thermostat combo Question


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.