Have you ever run your own business? Particularly with employees? It's not just their pay but insurance on the building, workman's comp, liability, health care if you provide it, etc.

Then there's rent or mortgage payment. Sure you can move to a less expensive shop but guess what? No traffic to bring in customers. So you've got to advertise - more money. Then there's buying new technology to keep up with modern cars and providing maintenance to existing tools/equipment like scanner updates for that $5k Snap-on scanner...

If you have labor then out of that 80, 40 is going to them. Then another 10 for insurance/workman's comp and at least 10 in shop costs. So if you're lucky you get 20 per billable hour for each employee.

An honest shop can make a nice profit and I have no problems with that. I have a few places that I trust to take things when I don't have the time or I don't feel like it.

What I hate is when there's a bunch of idiots who try and pass off their mistakes on you. My uncle for example got his brakes done at pepboys. They said he needed both front calipers - he had worn his brakes too far and they seized because the piston came too far out. Mechanic did a wonderful job of explaining how by allowing the pistons to get too far extended they locked that way and now can't be compressed - says he's seen it alot.

So I asked to go see... Brakes were at about 2/32's, which is the minimum safe amount for inspection. The mechanic then grabbed a pair of channel locks and proceeded to try and reseat the pistons - by compressing one side. He jammed them up.

Shop manager came out - told me it was the 'standard' way to compress the pistons and confirmed that if the piston moves too far out it jams up... After much arguing they brought out a new rebuilt caliper to me. I used air to pop the piston out very easily. Then I put it back in and seated it. Then, carefully I extended the piston and had hammer hands use the channel locks. Hopelessly jammed. They had nothing to say... They refunded the full job and gave him a $50 gift card. He didn't want to make a scene but I wanted to bring in every paper and TV station I could reach.

Same one in my earlier story. Oh and they lit a car on fire once. Another hammer hands cut the main feed line from the alternator rather than unbolt it. He then twisted the two ends together and taped it... He worked there for years after that...

As for dealers and private sellers? Sure, paint the vehicle in the best light you can but don't blatantly lie about it. In my case with that bronco, showing 10yo pictures that weren't representative of the condition was lying. Nothing more...

 

I was in business for 15 years. I never had to advertise. I use a couple of repair shops one in Arizona & one in Nevada, neither advertise. Why because people that do good work, are honest, get way more word of mouth advertising than they need. I always was backed up with work. So are the two repair shops that fix my vehicles.
Most dealerships are not interested in repeat customers that want fair honest pricing & service. When you buy a new car you get the screw at least twice & sometimes three times. They screw you on the price, maybe, If you have a trade in the really screw you on that. Then the interest you pay if you make payments, then the extended warranties. A dealer on the average makes no less than $500/unit, then they give you half what they end selling your trade in for so more profit up to around $3K then extended warranties I have no idea the mark ups on those but it must be high because they almost threaten you if you don't want it. Then if they get you the loan they get a percentage there. So what I'm told by an old partsman in a dealership the dealer makes about $5K it varies per unit it sells, How many vehicles does a busy stealership sell per month. Remember most stealerships have all kinds of salespeople but only a few top people make any money. Their mechanic, parts people work off of flat rate or percentage of parts they push. So their overhead is not what people think. Then they get factory kick backs & factory support, etc.
If there wasn't big money in owning stealerships, why was Dale Sr, Penske, Hendericks, & John Elway, & many other wealthy people own multiple stealerships. They don't stay wealthy by buying tax write offs.
Craig

 

Hard to find honest used car dealers that's why I am inclined to keep what I got and keep repairing it

 

This is very good advice. If you know what to look for in repairs, you'll probably be unhappy with what other people do for you at current shop rates. I own boring vehicles with long proven track records that have great parts support and a healthy forum of information I used to work as a service writer. I was an honest, well informed service writer - the kind you could trust to look after your vehicle's repairs. I was overshadowed by dishonest service writers whose goal was to extract money rather then establish long term relationships.

It's hard to have a repair business that's sucessful and honest, no doubt. The irony is, if you really know what to look for in a repair shop, you probably don't need their services!

 

a used car dealer that lies, who would of thought.

 

If you have an established customer base or a good location foot traffic and word of mouth should be enough. My comment was about relocating a shop to a lower rent area as suggested by another poster. It can be a double edged sword. Get too hidden and you have to do something to get people in the door. Especially as a startup.

As a business owner myself I just get a bit cranky when it feels like someone thinks your hourly rate goes all into your pocket as profit. There are a lot of costs that most people don't understand as well as sacrifices. In the end I wouldn't have it any other way and I have no problem with anyone charging a fair price for honest work. 90% of the work that gets done on my vehicles I do because I simply don't want to pay $80/hr for something I can do myself. If I don't want to do it or I don't have the time then I pay someone else.

Yeah, there's something to be said for a vehicle that you know the history of. There are some reasons to move on but for the most part once you've gone through and caught up on maintenance it becomes very predictable.

I for one and sick and tired of the overly complex, interconnected computer systems in the new cars. Don't get me wrong, I like computers but with the interconnected nature and multiple points of failure built by lowest bidder contractors... No thanks. That's when I decided that 2005 would be the newest car I would likely ever own. The funny thing is that I'm heavily leaning toward running EFI and an E4OD in my SuperCab. They would be separate systems though and the C6, DS2 and 4bbl intake would be patiently sitting in the corner of the garage just in case...

 

I had Tire Kingdumb did this with my 89 F250. I got new tires on the front. Next day my friend was looking at the new skins and said to me" Whos the mooron that put the center cap on last....."

Went back and and had them correct it! 16 lug nuts they also hammered on made it fun to watch the the guy trying to take them off with out air tools.

I retorqued the lugs my self so I know I can get them off on the side of the road. I doubt I'll go back to that place again.

I never went back to the Prickboys after they fought me about tires for my 84 F250. I had 16.5 rims and they argued that they were 16 rims.... lost a sale they did and I showed the factory stamp showing the rim size. I grabbed my keys and drove my truck out of the bay tossed the ripped up invoice in the parking lot with them trying to talk to me after I CORRECTED them. heheh

 

Years ago I went tire shopping for my Chevelle. Decided on some 235/60-15 BFG Radial T/A's. Questions always started the same "What's it for?" Grrr... I'm asking a specific question here, Price and availability for some BFG Radial T/A's in 235/60-15... It's a NON-STOCK application...

Anyway, most times I just said 70 Chevelle and that was the end of the questions but one shop... When I told him what it was for he put me on hold right away. I assumed he was getting me a price and checking stock but when he came back he said "that car isn't in our system, we don't even have books that go back that far here. I spoke to my manager and he asked if that's even the correct tire size for the car." I replied that it was not the original size but it would fit fine - price please? "Do you know the original size?" Yes... Can I get a price please? "What's the original size?" F78-14... Have any of those in stock? "Um I think you have the numbers wrong, that's not an F it's an R, maybe it's just worn or something and it's not 78, it's 75 and you're missing part of the number. Can you check again?" JUST GIVE ME THE FN PRICE FOR WHAT I ASKED!!!!!!

 

Can't you read? I told you I have run my own business for over 20 years. I have a B.A. in business. That is equivalent to a PHD in other fields. I have many awards on my wall. I have an B.A.A.S. in other fields, and many certifications. Having a college education makes you smarter and earns you more money over your lifetime.

Treat your customers fairly and honestly and your business will grow. Car salesman, don't buy crap that needs to go to the salvage yard, and fix the vehicle where you know there is going to be a problem. It is not that hard to figure out how to be a good or great business man.

 

While I fully understand that businesses are out to make money cuz thats what they do, I find it hard to believe that you have to lie your ****ing *** off just to get people to come in and take a look.

Same thing on craigslist, I get it, you need to get rid of your old ride for this reason or that reason.

But here is the problem I have. While I understand your side of the line, what you need to do is understand my side of the line. When I'm shopping for a vehicle, I'm paying you exactly what it's worth. Not a ****ing penny more. If I can get away with paying less I will but I will NOT pay more than what the vehicle is worth. I've done quite a bit of wheeling and dealing in my short time as a driver, been ripped off twice, never ripped anybody off. When I bought my 1977 F250 for $1100 I told they guy it was worth at least $3000. He told me it was ok and that he didn't need it. If he would have changed his mind that would have been the end of it. If I was trying to rip him off I wouldn't have told him the value of his truck cuz that's not how I roll. Same thing when I sold that truck. Obviously I put it up for $2500 which is what book value was at the time I sold it. When I finally let it go I sold it for $1500 which was $1000 less than what I asked but the guy I sold it to was gonna be able to treat that truck they way it deserved to be treated and keep it in better shape than me.

I don't expect handouts, I don't expect perfection. I expect honesty and fairness for all involved in any kind of deal.

 

Wow really, you must be the only one that thinks that way

In all seriousness, there is a major problem with your over angry little statement there. Who says what a given vehicle is worth? You will pay up to what it is worth to you, the next guy will pay up to what it's worth to him. The seller is going to sell it for what it is worth to him OR what he thinks he can get for it. That is all, if you can't reach that number tough cookies, no matter that YOU think it is worth.

 

Just the other day I had someone look at the 90 Lincoln Town Car I have. Its a POS body and the inside is trashed.


I got it for a cheep price from a guy at work so I can get the wife(now exwife) from trashing my 85 Plymouth(2nd car I ever owned).

I put some $$$ in to it so I will be a reliable car. FFW almost 2 years, I got the car back from her as I know the engine/tranny is good(going to put in the 89 Bronco2).

The guy came over and I told him its not a pretty car but it does drive and what I was going to do with it. He looked it over and asked what I wanted. I said$700 and I was taking a loss with all I had to do with it. He actily said that about right for the shape of the car, right around scrap price! He did say I was the most honest person about that car with the shape and problems it had. He might be back as he was checking other cars out.

I got ripped before on other things and I don't like ripping people off either. Comes around-goes around

 

I will agree with you on that to a certain extent. Legally, worth is determined by the book value on the vehicle, also taking into account all things that have been done that either increase or decrease its book value (I.E. using the ash tray for cigarettes vs not using, updating A/C to R134a, etc.) Which is the way it is supposed to be done when buying a vehicle from a dealership.

Another factor in determining worth is called sentimental value. Let's say that my grandmothers 1979 F-150 SuperCab Long Box 4x4 wasn't left to rot in the ground. Let's say it was kept in a garage and very well maintained. Now NADA says that truck with its factory options would book for between $6,047 and $8,632. ( 1979 Ford F150 Custom 1/2 Ton Supercab Pickup Value, Prices & Specs | NADAguides | NADA 1979 Ford F150 Custom Book Value & 1979 Ford F150 Custom Market Price )

Now, since my grandmother is long dead, and I have very fond childhood memories of that truck I would be hard pressed to let it go for anything less than high retail value or $8,632. Hell, even with it rotted out and sinking into the ground I still would have a problem letting it go just because I have hope that one day it might be restored back to its factory condition.

However lets say that I didn't have any emotional attachment to the truck. Its just one I bought and have now decided to sell. Since I know its book value thats going to be my asking price plus or minus depending on condition at time of sale. Other things that are going to determine the price I let it go at are going to be "Do I really need this vehicle sold NOW, or can I wait for the right person to come along?" "Is it taking up space that I need for something else?" and most importantly "How much and how badly do I need money?"

That good sir is how you determine the "worth" of any given vehicle.

 

If your a commie, are you a commie?

 

Sentimental value only has worth to you. If somebody buys a vehicle from you, the sentimental value doesn't transfer over to them because they paid more. If somebody has a rotted truck for sale, and they double the asking price because their dad used to take them fishing in it, nobody is going to pay that for it. You know that, and I know that. To say that YOU would pay more for that is foolish and ignorant. And sometimes, the vehicle is worth scrap price because that's exactly what it is.