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A little help so I don't have to fight a truck fire also

 
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:09 PM
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A little help so I don't have to fight a truck fire also

So this week I'm going to be putting my electrical work to the test by putting a rear tank in my truck and hardwiring it from scratch due to my cab being an 80 f150 that didnt have dual tanks. I'm going to be running it off a standard ford in dash switch to a selector. I have the electrics figured out and should not be a problem running it electrically or setting it up to show either tank in the fuel level gauge in the dash by using the tank selector switch.

Now the problem I am looking at is with my dual exhaust under my truck. It runs down the right side and over the differential then splits to both sides and out the back. So with putting a rear tank in I am looking at the exhaust being close to the steel tank on both under sides of the tank.

How much clearance do I need from the exhaust to the tank to not worry about heating the tank to the point of either vaporizing, boiling off, or heaven for bid end up like others on here fighting the blaze in a gloreous scene of human determination. You know who I'm talking about.

I don't have access for a skid plate/heat shield under there and we all know how heat tape holds moisture and rots pipes so I can't go that route as the exhaust is new. Any thoughts, pictures, or experience with running duals out the back by the rear tank will be helpful.
 
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:32 PM
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A bunch of pictures I took for Gary are here:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post10714561

I don't know the answers to your questions, though. I wouldn't think the pipes that far away from the engine would be that overwhelmingly warm (especially with the vehicle moving) but I've never really felt them or measured the temperature....
 
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:09 PM
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i would say that 3" of space would probably be enough, but i have no direct experience with this.
if it needs to be closer, it would be pretty easy to build a heat shield for it if you're not afraid of sheet metal. with a heat shield on there, you would be fine with only half an inch between pipe and shield, and another half inch between shield and tank.
remember, my numbers here come from the "that looks about right" theory of engineering, not from careful study.
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:01 AM
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Gasoline exhaust can get super-hot way back there, especially if towing or climbing a grade.

It would be a simple matter to fabricate some semi-circular heat-deflectors from preferably really-shiny metal and fasten these to old-timey U-bolt exhaust-clamps.

First, attach the exhaust-clamp around the pipe; and then, attach the deflector onto the protuding threads of the U-bolt.

Galvalume exhaust tubing of a larger size than the existing exhaust can be split length-wise and fabricated into heat-shields.

I have also had good results using cookie-sheets cut and formed to fit.



.................................................. ..................






On a totally un-related issue, is it just me, or does it usually take numerous attempts to get these forum pages to load ??

Nine of ten attempts, all I get is the bar across the top and the ad below it.

It is becoming quite frustrating.
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
Gasoline exhaust can get super-hot way back there, especially if towing or climbing a grade.

It would be a simple matter to fabricate some semi-circular heat-deflectors from preferably really-shiny metal and fasten these to old-timey U-bolt exhaust-clamps.

First, attach the exhaust-clamp around the pipe; and then, attach the deflector onto the protuding threads of the U-bolt.

Galvalume exhaust tubing of a larger size than the existing exhaust can be split length-wise and fabricated into heat-shields.

I have also had good results using cookie-sheets cut and formed to fit.



.................................................. ..................






On a totally un-related issue, is it just me, or does it usually take numerous attempts to get these forum pages to load ??

Nine of ten attempts, all I get is the bar across the top and the ad below it.

It is becoming quite frustrating.
I'll check the yard and see if they have any heat shields, but I haven't seen any. Probably be best because i run 92 in my truck and its pretty hot on those pipes. And in regards to the page loading I haven't had that problem personally but others may have. Thanks!
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
First, attach the exhaust-clamp around the pipe; and then, attach the deflector onto the protuding threads of the U-bolt.
if i were doing it, i would do it with a flat heat shield that way - its a lot easier to fabricate and get your holes to line up


On a totally un-related issue, is it just me, or does it usually take numerous attempts to get these forum pages to load ??
i've never had a problem with it since i got a real internet connection - back in the dark ages of dial-up i used to have problems with nearly every site out there.
also, what browser are you using. some like IE are horrible about things like that, while firefox or chrome will just perform like they should.

also, if its not too much to ask, would it be ok if we kept the posts in regular font and saved the bold for emphasis - its just easier for everyone to read when its all in the same font across the board.... thanks man
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:17 PM
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So I went to the yard today to get everything and they closed liked 20 minutes after getting there. Just my luck so ill have to go back after Christmas. But looking at the ones there I may have 2 inches of clearance ill see when I get the tank. Hopefully I'll be good. Does anyone know where you can get those skid plates as I know they used to make them, but I've only seen ones for up to 79 or for bronco tanks?
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
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AFAIK, they only used them on bronco tanks because the tank hangs so low there was a valid risk of it bumping the trail. the standard pickup tank doesn't really hang below the frame rails at all, so there was no need for a skid plate, and so i suspect they didn't make one. you might want to play with a tape measure and a 79-down truck at the yard to see if you could easily adapt its plate to your rig.
but the problem with a full skid plate is that its likely to hold dirt, snow, leaves, etc, up against the tank, causing rust problems. study it carefully to make sure you don't get yourself out of one problem and into another.
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:30 PM
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I figured that they wouldn't make them for the reasons you stated so I will just get the tank under there and see what I got (heat and clearance wise) before sticking any fuel in it. I still need to post some photos up on here when I get her washed so maybe ill put some of the tank up also to get everyone's opinion. Looking at the other tanks I don't think it will be as close as I thought since the tanks don't come below the frame rails. For some reason I thought they hung lower for the gallons that they take.
 
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:34 PM
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if you're installing a used tank, DON'T run with it empty until you make sure it won't get too hot, as you have a tank full of gas vapors and air, with no fuel to absorb the heat, thus giving it the biggest possible chance for a problem, even though a fire is still unlikely. if the tank has never seen fuel before, then yeah, empty is the way to go until you work it out. on a used tank, the fuller the better. on a full tank, whatever heat gets to the tank dissipates in 20 gallons of fuel, and it would take a lot of heat to raise 20 gallons from 30* even to 60*, and a helluva lot more to get it to its flash point.
 
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:38 PM
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Ok so here's the update... I wired everything from scratch for the dual tanks by taking a schematic and wiring off that using my own homemade wiring harnesses since my origional cab didn't come with dual tanks.. Now using the switch it changes my fuel gauge correctly to the tank im on, but when I have it in either position its still only sucking from the front tank which is the powered side.

I checked everything with the multimeter and it corresponds correctly, so I figured the selector valve I got was just making the click and not switching. I went to the store and got a new aftermarket one and tested it prior to putting it on by blowing in the rear tank port which allowed me to, I then put power to it and it blocked the flow through the rear one and allowed it to take air from the front tank one so it was working properly.

Now when I hooked it up in default rear tank (mind you the fuel line isn't hooked to the tank at all) it continues to run off the front tank normally. It should be killing the motor after awhile but doesn't so I checked the fuel line by sticking my tongue to it and it barely pulls on my tongue.

I'm at a loss and need some assistance. Everything is wired to specs and valve is working when not attached. It is a single wire valve and is grounded by the trucks frame. I tested the switch by jumping the red to brown and no difference. I don't know where to go from here as everything is the way it should be.

Do these valves have some type of run empty safety that won't let it switch to an empty line, could it be a grounding issue (i could run a wire from the mounting screw to another place), or is there something I am missing. I don't want to hook up the rear tank yet if its going to be pulling off the front only or both at same time with the front doing the most work. Thanks guys and gals.
 
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by EL_JEFE32 View Post
Do these valves have some type of run empty safety that won't let it switch to an empty line....
No, that technology didn't exist back then.

I think these selector valves are just solenoids (instead of electric motors) which default to one position until power is applied, at which time they switch to the other.

If yours works as it should on the bench but not in the truck, I'd be investigating the wiring and the grounds.

Also, perhaps you could get it to fail on the bench "under load" - IOW with gasoline inside of it (assuming non-electric-in-tank fuel pumps here).
 
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Old 12-27-2012, 09:27 PM
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as ctubutis said, the valve is a simple solenoid, a spring defaults it to the rear tank, and the power applied to it pulls it to the front tank and holds it there as long as power is applied.
what happens if its in the truck but the wire isn't hooked up? it appears as if the wire is recieving power all the time, causing the valve to always go to the front tank. assuming this is correct, hook a test light onto that wire and see when it has power. it SHOULD have power ONLY when the key is on AND the switch is in the front tank position. if it has power at other times, check your wiring and see what you got wrong
 
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joshofalltrades View Post
what happens if its in the truck but the wire isn't hooked up? it appears as if the wire is recieving power all the time, causing the valve to always go to the front tank. assuming this is correct, hook a test light onto that wire and see when it has power. it SHOULD have power ONLY when the key is on AND the switch is in the front tank position. if it has power at other times, check your wiring and see what you got wrong
Checked power again just to be sure and no power with switch on main tank and 12 v or so in the aux setting as it suppossed to be. There is noway for it to be electrical as its direct to switch to valve. I had it completely disconnected from power earlier today with same results. That why I'm at a loss. It's a bwd universal one I'm using if that helps and the one earlier was the better polack one. Unless maybe the electric solenoid can't overcome the fuel or vacuum pressure of the mechanical pump. But a 351w pump should be 8 psi and its rated for that. I don't know gentlemen.
 
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:08 PM
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Then I'd next say it's sticking, possibly from sitting on a shelf unused for >10 years.
 

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