Its how close the tolerances have to be to develop the insane pressures. The injectors in a 6.0 used the oil pressure to operate the piston to build sufficient fuel pressure.

 

I know, I just still feel as if the ford engineers didn't take bad fuel into account enough during the filtering design.
I think it's a fine system, and I believe it works perfect with good fuel.
I also understand how "bad fuel" isn't an issue for ford engineers, it's a problem with storage tanks / filling stations, etc.
I do think however, that more could have been done to make the system more compatible with fuel from the real world, not lab fuel.

At the end of the day, everyone who owns a diesel intends to use clean fuel, it's been that way since the beginning of diesels.

The bad part, is that with the introduction of more and more advanced technology used in the fuel systems, the durability / safety factor has not kept up, and the repair costs have bloated.

So my opinion is that yes, we know what they use is required, we will likely never see HEUI or mechanical injection used ever again, that is old dead technology. Common rail is here to stay. It will likely evolve to a better quality than it is right now, and we have no chance to argue the progression.
It would just be nice to see some of the engineering get tossed into the fuel filtration system, so that the average user doesn't have to worry as much.

Weather it's 1 or a million HPFP failures, it still sucks just as bad for the guy that gets left holding the repair bill. The amount of damage a 6.4 /6.7 or other brand of common rail diesel can endure from bad fuel far exceeds the same damage on an earlier generation engine, yet the fuel filtration seems to not be evolving at the same rate.

All IMHO.

 

well said...and, yes, it is not a million failures but it is hardly one...and even more hardly, 2 or 3 fuel stations involved. According to the manufacturer's answers to the NHTSA investigation, there have been hundreds of failed Bosch CP4 series failures. Ford and GM admit to hundreds themselves...we know that they are not likely including all CP4 failures because the non warranty ones may not be in the count...

VW uses the CP4 series pump. They are now warranting all HPFP failures to 100,000 miles. They have admitted quality and reliability issues in letters sent to owners that have experienced HPFP failures. They were forced by the NHTSA to either fix them all or face a complete recall. Porsche has publicly admitted that the Bosch CP4 HPFP used in their very high line Cayenne is "delicate".

The sky may not be falling...but the frustration with the fragility of the Bosch CP4 series HPFP is growing. There is a thread at another Ford board discussing this same issue...and the new filter system by dieselsite is a catalyst for the discussion there as well...

Regards

 

Is the Bosch CP4 a frame mounted pump or is it in the fuel tank ? Can it be replaced with a different brand of pump ( by us, the truck owner ) that wouldn't be so fragile ? I'm a 7.3 owner that wants to be a 6.7 owner but is afraid to pull the trigger on a new truck because of the possibility of a $12k to $16k repair from some water that my 7.3 could handle. What about the Bosch pumps that sent aluminum through the fuel system, was that initially from water or from just failure from the pump itself ?

 

I ask about non water pump failure because wasn't rickatic's failure from the pump coming apart and sending aluminum through the fuel system , not from water

 

The cp4 is a gear driven pump in the center valley of the engine in the front.

 

I think that with a tuner you could one day run a different pump, if you can't already.

I wouldn't let this keep you from buying a 6.7, it's not a common issue.

 

Ford admitted reduced HPFP service life on our fuel specs. I'm not so worried about us first owners it's all the poor saps that will buy our trucks after us and expect to get a reasonable 150-200K miles. It's criminal, no one should ever have to pay 11k dollars to replace a faulty fuel pump, EVER.

I wouldn't mind needing to replace a $900.00 pump at a reasonable mileage.

The thing I can't understand is why can no one come up with a way to filter the high pressure fuel between the pump and injectors so as not to ruin the whole system.

 

You do know that it doesn't cost that much just to replace the fuel pump, right?
Removal
NOTE: During the repair or installation of fuel-related components, cap, tape or otherwise appropriately protect all fuel openings to prevent the ingress of dirt or other contamination. Remove caps, tape and other protective materials prior to installation.

1. WARNING: Do not work on the fuel system until the pressure has been released and the engine has cooled. Fuel in the high-pressure fuel system is hot and under very high pressure. High-pressure fuel may cause cuts and contact with hot fuel may cause burns. Failure to follow these instructions may result in serious personal injury.
   Release the fuel system pressure. For additional information, refer to Section 310-00.

1. Remove the fuel rail supply tube. For additional information, refer to Fuel Rail Supply Tube in this section.

1. Remove the vacuum pump. For additional information, refer to Section 206-07.

1. Using the Dial Indicator Gauge with Holding Fixture and the Clutch Housing Gauge, check the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear backlash. For additional information, refer to Specifications in this section.

1. 
   NOTE: The crankshaft gear contains a single timing mark. The camshaft drive gear contains a single timing mark and a double timing mark. The high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear contains a double timing mark.
   The engine is timed correctly when the single mark on the crankshaft drive gear is aligned with the double mark on the camshaft drive gear, and the single mark on the camshaft drive gear is aligned with the double mark on the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear. Additionally, the keyway on the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear must be in the 12 o'clock position.
   NOTE: Engine front cover removed for clarity.
   Rotate the crankshaft clockwise, as viewed from the front, until the single mark on the camshaft drive gear and the double mark on the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear are aligned.

1. Remove the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear nut.

1. Using the Universal Puller or equivalent, remove the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear.

1. Remove the 2 fuel rail supply tube bracket bolts and the fuel rail supply tube bracket from the rear of the high-pressure fuel injection pump.

1. Disconnect the volume control valve electrical connector from the top of the high-pressure fuel injection pump.

1. Remove the 3 high-pressure fuel injection pump spacers.

1. NOTICE: Do not pry against the mating surface of the high-pressure fuel injection pump or damage to the high-pressure fuel injection pump may occur.
   Slide the high-pressure fuel injection pump off the mounting studs and remove the high-pressure fuel injection pump.
   • Remove and discard the high-pressure fuel injection pump mounting O-ring.

Installation

1. Install a new high-pressure fuel injection pump mounting O-ring.
   1. Lubricate the high-pressure fuel injection pump mounting O-ring with clean engine oil.
   1. Slide the high-pressure fuel injection pump onto the mounting studs, and install the high-pressure fuel injection pump.

1. Install the 3 high-pressure fuel injection pump spacers.
   • Tighten to 24 Nm (18 lb-ft).

1. Connect the volume control valve electrical connector at the top of the high-pressure fuel injection pump.

1. Install the fuel rail supply tube bracket and the 2 fuel rail supply tube bracket bolts to the rear of the high-pressure fuel injection pump.
   • Tighten to 10 Nm (89 lb-in).

1. 
   NOTE: The crankshaft gear contains a single timing mark. The camshaft drive gear contains a single timing mark and a double timing mark. The high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear contains a double timing mark.
   The engine is timed correctly when the single mark on the crankshaft drive gear is aligned with the double mark on the camshaft drive gear, and the single mark on the camshaft drive gear is aligned with the double mark on the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear. Additionally, the keyway on the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear must be in the 12 o'clock position.
   NOTE: Engine front cover removed for clarity.
   Install the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear.
   • Make sure the single mark on the camshaft drive gear is aligned with the double mark on the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear.

1. Install the high-pressure fuel injection pump drive gear nut.
   • Tighten to 80 Nm (59 lb-ft).

1. Install the vacuum pump. For additional information, refer to Section 206-07.

1. Install the fuel rail supply tube. For additional information, refer to Fuel Rail Supply Tube in this section.

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Can you reference this?

 

This is also what I think.

I don't know if the mileage you stated is accurate or not, but in any case I think it sucks that the repair cost relative to the value of the truck at the time would be unprecedented.

 

If the HPFP grenades, you gonna put the truck back together with just a new pump and no injectors or anything?

My friend's HPFP roasted on his 6.4, and he replaced "just the pump", but the pump failed from the regulator valve, so the actual pump was just fine.
If the pump actually self destructs (from water, or just "on it's own"), where will all the metal shavings go?

 

This one as well has "valves" that can fail, shafts that can fail, seals that can fail. Not all pump failures require complete fuel system replacement. And no, there hasnt been a single failure at our place.

 

When Ford gave me the finger regarding my repair, a well known Ford engineer who was in on the design of the 6.7 sent me an email. He said if it was his truck,he would replace the pump only, thoroughly clean the fuel lines and all the other parts and put it back together. He would even reuse the injectors. If the truck did not run right afterwards, he would change out injectors one at a time...

...and ,yes, this is the same engineer that used to participate here.

I did not take that route...

Regards

 

Just curious, How long would this replacement take for someone like yourself?