Well my 97 F150 XL needs a pile of work and its time to replace it anyway, Ive found a deal on an 2003 F250 but will it be enough for my new setup?

I run a concession trailer(part time business) and sell vehicle raffle tickets for charity at festivals in my area over the summer, previously what Ive done is had my friend drive my truck (f150) hauling the concession trailer to the festivals following me in the charity supplied Pontiac Montana van (with my concession staff in the van (3 staff members), Then when we got there Id setup the concession trailer and get the staff started and then go setup the charity booth. And we would stay in a hotel($$$).

Now the 2 problems, the f150 has past its limits for towing and needs a lot of work, so I figure I'm better off replacing it, also the friend that used to drive it for me moved away to Denmark and he was the only one I trust to drive the truck hauling the trailer other than myself, especially if I replace it.

Now the new setup I was considering is F250 or F350 with truck camper on the back so we don't have to stay in a hotel, towing Both(both have eletric brakes) the concession trailer (17.5foot) and a car hauler(16 foot) loaded with the Montana. Now Ive sort of tested it recently when I borrowed a freinds Ram 3500 and hauled both trailers to storage but didnt have the montana to put on it as the charity keeps that between events.

I didnt notice any problems but it was only a 30 min drive to the storagge facility, but a freind of mine who stopped by as I was loading up said his dodge dakota could pull the whole setup, but thats to much for a half ton I think.

Any ideas, sugestions, ect would be apreciated.

 

If you're going to have a camper on it (I'm assuming a cab over camper?), I'd suggest the 350. The only difference between the 250 and 350 is the payload. You need the payload, so I'd go with the 1 ton. If you're not overly concerned with the payload and the 250 is what you want, you could add airbags to help level it out but know that if the 250's GVWR is 10k and your truck weighs 8k empty, you'll only have 2k pounds worth of payload (that number includes passengers, fuel, etc).

So I understand your setup, you're going to have a cab over camper, pulling TWO tongue type trailers? If so, what state is that legal in? I know some allow a 5th wheel/gooseneck and a standard tongue trailer, but I didn't know you could pull 2 of the latter types together.

Welcome to FTE by the way!

 

Thanks, as far as I can find its Legal here in Manitoba

heres what I could find for the western provinces, Ill only be in Manitoba and Sascatchewan so the others dont matter

And now that I look at the payload its looking more like I need to find a f350

 

It also depends on how heavy a truck camper you have. They can vary widely.

Here is a link to some good publications from Ford to help in your decision - Hiller Ford - Ford Vehicle Research

They have data on prior years, so if you are looking at used vehicles it is a big help.

Good luck!

 

How much does your concession trailer weigh? Sounds to me like you will need a DRW F350, and with the weight of a minivan on a car hauler you will probably need a gooseneck or fifth wheel concession trailer.

I'm a CDL holder and have spent much of my adult life towing all different types of trailers, and I do not think this will be safe.

 

Thanks Ill take a look at that when I get home, also one freind mention F350 needs a CDL to drive? has anyone heard of this? a CDL to drive a pickup?

heres what my current class 5 registration says

took this from a chart on here
http://www.mpi.mb.ca/PDFs/ClassLicen...emBrochure.pdf

 

I agree with Crazy 001 it isn't to good of an idea to tow bumper pull and bumper pull together even if it is legal. Secondly your weight is going to put you high your van is gonna add up the weight fast. If I were you I would get a 3/4 ton or bettter van to replace your pontiac then it can tow one trailer and then have a 3/4 ton or better truck to tow your on top camper. but thats just me.
Trav

 

I would be very surprised if the concession trailer AND the van on a car hauler would weigh less than 4540 kg....

Depending on the details, this could be a monster and easily cross over into the real danger zone, so you're doing well to think out loud here!

As others mentioned, the weight of the camper and the weight of the concession stand, car hauler, montana, 4 people, and ALL the cargo is going to add up real fast. I would recommend starting with some real data and figure out what you'll need.

Weigh everything first - the stand, the hauler, the Montana, etc.

And more details on the camper are needed. How big? How HEAVY? Just a sleeping shell, or a super deluxe camper with slides and a full kitchen and bathroom?

Lastly, is the concession stand even equipped to tow a loaded car hauler? I've never seen one built that stout... Some monster 5th wheels are, but a concession stand?

At first blush, I'd recommend ditching the idea of towing the Montana....

 

Just looking at the weights of Pontiac Montana's your looking at at least 3,730 lb for a first gen (97-05) short wheel base Montana to 4,632 lbs for a second gen (06-09) Long wheel base plus the weight of your car hauler which is another 3000 - 4500lb roughly.

Your dancing with approaching 10K on the second trailer alone.

Best idea would be to just get a single big 5th wheel flatbed and load the concession stand then remove the wheels, load up the camper and strap and chain that down, and then at the end of the trailer you load up your Montana.

You'll need a pretty big 5th wheel but that has to be safer than double towing trailers and you probably would actually save some weight some where in that combo.

 

Based on your info above, first I have to say WELCOME! Next when it comes to info on Truck Camper hauling, you won't find much better info then you can at RV under the forums look for Truck Campers.

Next I would personally look at a lighter Truck camper (8 ft) in a long-bed F350. Then pull your concession trailer behind that. Then have one of your helpers drive the Pontiac Montana.

Even with all that said it might bea non starter if you have to get a CDL. AnyTruck Camper with gear will be pushing over 2000 lbs,and realistically could be nearing 3000 or more. Add the weight of the concession trailer, you may already be hitting the limit for a CDL...

Good luck! But I would say the F250 is a non-starter.

Garry in Kodiak, AK

 

Please remember for a minute that the number one issue isn't going to be total weight of the package, but rather the stability of a double trailer arrangement. In the vast majority of US states that permit towing double trailer the lead trailer has to be fifth wheel or gooseneck. This is because of stability, by placing the coupling directly over the axle of the tow vehicle traditional sway is near impossible. But a bumper-pull places the coupling behind the axle, and the lateral force will apply a torque on the frame an causes sway.

The same principle will be happening twice; the rear trailer will be torquing the lead trailer, which will be torquing the tow vehicle. Some tow very light, single axle stuff behind a bumper-pull trailer and have good luck with that. But you're talking about over 6,000 lbs even with a light car trailer, and the weight of this may rival that of your concession trailer.

Federal law down here in the lower 48 requires that commercial vehicles towing double trailers keep the lead trailer heavier than the one on the rear of the truck. This is for stability, and if you roll through a weigh station with your rear trailer heavier than the lead you are almost guaranteed to get cited. For stability this is a MUST, and here we're talking about a setup that's by definition more stable than a tandem bumper-pull setup.

And THEN you have to consider the aspect of getting the brakes on both trailers to work effectively, which is going to be very difficult even if you have a brake controller that will handle four axles. This is because the brakes are rated for the maximum GAWR of the axle, and it's going to be virtually impossible to get both trailers to weigh the same percentage of their respective GVWR on their axles with brakes. Turn the brake controller up and one will likely overbrake and lock up, which will cause a jackknife. Turn it down and one will not be braking hard enough to adequately stop it's mass, imparting more stress on the other brakes.

I can't emphasize this enough: THIS IS A BAD IDEA. A minivan on a trailer is FAR too heavy for this to be safe.

 

Ok Thanks Ill have to ditch the Montana then, (hmm maybe I can get one of the people from the charity to drive it) So F350 with lighter truck camper (no slides, maybe popup?) and concession trailer would that be ok? concession trailer weights approximately 1500-2000 lbs,

Hmm conncesion stand wheels look a little hard to remove, plus I dont know where Id find a trailer like that

If I could I would but the van is owned by the charity

 

Now that you are not towing two trailers, the weight of the camper will help you decide F250 or F350.

Ford publishes a trailer towing guide for each year that should help. I have a copy for my year (2009). With an F250, 5.4 gas engine, Supercab, and 3.73 axle, Ford says I can tow up to 10,000 lbs. I also need to ensure I don't exceed the GVWR for what the truck suspension is carrying - Truck, camper, contents, and tongue weight from the trailer. My GVWR is 9200 lbs.


This cartoon from the trailer towing guide may help:

 

If you even have to ask the question, get a 350!! A lot of people will argue that they're really the same truck except for that little sticker in the door. Guess what, that little sticker determines whats a legal load and whats not. The price difference is so miniscule, I can't see not getting the 350.

 

why cant the montana pull a 2000 lb trailer?

even if it is big, the weight is reasonable. a good hitch like a hensley arrow can make it safe to pull without sway.

get someone from the charity to drive that, then get what ever you want for yourself.

or get the truck, a gooseneck car hauler, and a campershell. put the campershell at the front of the gooseneck, strap the montana behind that. and pull the concession trailer behind the gooseneck.

the brakes on the concession trailer could still be a problem, but this would solve that: Brake Controllers - Tekonsha judt pur a conventional controller in the truck for the gooseneck, and the wireless unit for the concession trailer