Yes I would think it would leak out. What year of booster is that?

i would agree that it should leak if you are missing a seal but I don't know for sure either

 

It's from a 2005 F250.

Well, onto research I guess. I swear this thing has been the biggest headache on this build bar-none.


And from what I'm already finding I think I need to find out how to properly bleed this system without having power steering. Usually you bleed it by turning the wheel back and forth, that doesn't apply to me. It's also considered critical to do before starting it up.

Also seeing mention of high pressure lines causing a vacuum that sucks air in if the hole is too small for liquid to escape. (?) I put everything down properly but maybe I need some thread sealer on those lines too.

 

You should not have to "bleed" the hydraulic side at all! Bleeding any hydraulic system is usually only required if there's no "return" of fluid.

Brake systems (drum/disc piston side) in general don't have fluid return.

Since there's a return in your hydraulically boosted "side" they self bleed (like you said when you turn the steering wheel) It's possible that you're getting air in the suction side (prior to the pump) that's causing foaming and the level is not deep enough to put non-foamed fluid at the inlet

That noise you hear is the pump screaming when it's low on fluid (and/or the oil is aerated) if there's a way you could use a larger/taller reservoir maybe a tad higher above the pump to get the pump inlet deeper in fluid, so the inlet stays covered in fluid the bubbles should clear.

Did you put a gage on the outlet? I wonder how much pressure you're making. Also, even though people have suggested teeing the "high-pressure" output of the booster to the return, I wonder if there might need to be a "restrictor" in it (the one that normally go to the steering box) to maintain *some* pressure in the line (like a steering box is actually connected)

Now, having said that, I have not placed a gage in the line to a steering box to see how much pressure there is when NOT moving the steering wheel.
A quick call to Redhead Steering might answer some questions --------------> https://www.redheadsteeringgears.com/contact/
They're in Auburn Wa by the way!

 

Thanks, I'll look into calling them.

The pump itself has a reservoir on it, I also added a PSC reservoir so I could return the high and low pressure lines back correctly since I do not have power steering. I tried to keep my return line as sort as possible but I did reuse the hose that was on it. The inlet on the pump is 3/8", the same as the outlet size. It's built into the pump housing, not something I can just swap out. It also draws from the bottom where most the pumps I see draw from the top. I'll start there as maybe it's pulling in air around the clamp on the return, or maybe it's just cavitation, which I'm not sure what my options are with that pump.

The big issue I'm having with filling it is it also over flows badly. I'm guessing it's the cause of the air in the line, but right now it will shoot out the top half quart if I fill it, but it's all foam.

So I'm guessing it comes down to finding where that air is getting in. Either the return line is cavitating, or the pump itself is bad. My guess is it's that return line from the reservoir to the pump.

 

Ht32 might be right there you needto block off or limit the high pressure return? Do you have a cooler hooked up?

 

Double post

 

Don't have a cooler yet.

The reservoir slows down the high pressure return before it hits the pump, it goes up through a filter and the return draws from the bottom outside the filter:


I don't think I would have any problems with it if there wasn't any air in the line. Problem is so much is getting it that it causes it to quickly foam, and foam takes up a lot more room.

 

An air leak in the return line would allow air if there was suction on the line, but it would not aerate the fluid unless the return line couldn't keep up with the flow.....if that's the case, then the pump reservoir is starving for oil and uncovering the pump inlet (and it's getting air right there)

Reading the stuff at the 4x4 sites indicates that everyone using a hydraulic booster without PS isn't talking about foaming oil so I think you either have someplace in pump getting air (maybe even internally in the pump)


Ok,

I did a little edumacating (of myself!!!)

Have a look at this video explaining how a power steering box works. There just might be *some* pressure on the PS line going to the box when driving down the road (NOT turning)
Haven't finished the video but if you can get past the corny references he does a fair job geek-splaining how it works!!

 

I would absolutely use the ZF-5 over the C-6 if it were me. (The ZF is a really nice trans and has a 0.80:1 OD making it "OK" with the 2-speed axle)

just saying......

 

I am thinking that my return line to the pump is the issue. I'll put in a bigger line and neck it to fit at the pump rather than before. I'm guessing it's just crushing the line because it does make it way worse when the brake gets pushed. So that would make sense.



Yeah, I like the ZF5 but matching it to an internally balanced 460 is a whole lot more work and money. I may reconsider it when I do the axle swap and need to put in a transfercase.

 

Finally got to spend a little more time on the problem today.

My powersteering pump has it's own reservoir and a the return inlet for some reason is at the bottom and facing the ground. Right now I'm looking at solutions for the return line. I'll need a way to connect a 5/8" hose onto a 3/8" opening on the bottom... or an idea I'm playing with is just to run the return line into the reservoir on the pump directly.

I took the cap off the reservoir on the pump and turned things on, it drained quickly. And I didn't notice any sound coming from the pump when I tried the brakes then. I put the cap back on and the sound came back. I'm figuring with the cap on it made a pretty strong suction and was no longer pulling in air when it was off but rather had to draw from the return line, which I think might be collapsing.

So, do I try to get a way too big line to work on the return line (there are no threads or anything, it's a clamp on built into the housing) or maybe alter the pumps cap and have things return that way? That would allow me to run the -10AN line all the way in but I don't know if that's inviting other problems. Unsure if I could just close off the normal return or if it needs it.

This is the style of pump I have, the threaded hole on the side is the outlet:

 

I would swap to a Saginaw pump.

 

Yeah after pricing parts out and what not I think I'm going to put the Hydrobooster on the back burner and just throw in a firewall mounted vacuum boost for the time being. It's the only thing keeping this truck from driving and it's becoming a money pit. Right now I have no pressure coming from my rear lines either which makes me think I have a problem with the master cylinder to it as well. I don't want to upgrade the pump to find the MC is faulty as well. I'm going to just go back to keeping it simple, I'd rather have the coolness of the pedal through the floor but for today I'm taking the daily use of the master cylinder on the firewall and an easy fluid check and fill.

I ordered the firewall kit Mid Fifty has (Classic Performance I think). The master cylinder might be a little small for the time being (couldn't find any information on what size it actually was, maybe 1" or maybe 1 1/8"?) but the axles and brakes will be changed out later as well. We will see, it's not a hard part to swap if need be. The F100's used 1 1/16" and the F250-600s used 1 1/4" from what my shop manual says. The truck my future axles will come with will be a 1 1/8" factory, so I'll willing to bet I will need to play around with it for a bit. If I can putz around at 30mph with it right now I'll be happy, my only concern is not being able to fully engage the brakes (from not enough volume), but we will see on that. I'll fine tune it later, today it just needs to move, lol. It's the last thing keeping it a truck that drives that I upgrade as I use it vs a project that sits. Much more fun working on something that you can drive and I've been without a truck for far too long now.

 

 

Good looking project you have going there

As of right now the truck is drivable again. I ended up using the master cylinder from the hydroboost mixed with a vacuum booster, mounted on the firewall right now.

The truck is on it's way back home, along with me, to Montana in about 2 months, so I haven't plated or insured it out here to drive it around. (the cost of plates and insurance here is about 9 times what it is out there. And it's not configured in a way I would want to be properly driving it around other people who drive horrible). For that reason I've held off on swapping out the other parts, especially since I'll end up doing a transfercase, steering column, suspension, cross member, fender modification, firewall paint, ect. all at the same time. Much easier getting a place to work back home, all I have in Washington is a slopped driveway.
I will say that the little I have moved it around confirms I will need to change my gear ratio. Right now it's at 5.83 (with 37" tires). 4.56 would be normal, 4.10 would be for better gas mileage, and if I remember off hand 3.50 would be the equivalent to what the PO of this engine had in his truck and it still launched harder than a beefed up literbike I had back then. So 5.83 is feeling extremely extreme, like I'm either going to lift the front off the ground or it's going to be dangerously squirrely. The truck moved fairly normal with 5.83s and the Y-block, but at idle with the 460 I have double the torque the Y-block had when it was peaked.

The vacuum booster seems to be working fine, however as I've stated I haven't put it through it's paces yet. Doesn't help that the brakes on this truck have always been worn out at best. The hydrobooster still seems like a neat idea to me but honestly I just think it's adding a can of worms onto a truck that's beautifully simple.