1990 f150 4.9 300-6 cyl laggy
#61
08-29-2012, 10:49 PM
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: west plains, missouri
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but i hope that's all you find if so you should look into an easy oiling system modification in which u drill an eighth inch hole in the oil galley that is behind the timing set and install a roll pin into the hole and this will pressure feed oil to the timing set spraying the timing gears with much needed oil with little or no pressure drop to the rest of the engine i did this on mine and the difference in timing gear noise alone was worth it. I got the the idea from the big diesel engines I work on day to day but i think i saw details and pics somewhere in this forum on how its done ill look if i can find it again ill post a link. Good luck and let us know what you find.
#62
08-30-2012, 06:28 AM
thanks for the info, i usually dont hear my timing gears, i had valve train rattle for awhile ,tha twas my fault when i rebuilt the motor i reused the old rockers, i have since changed all of them over, sound gone... now i just have an exhaust leak as i lost a nut on my exhaust flange... always something. . . thankyou again.
#63
08-30-2012, 12:28 PM
Elder User
ok, i got a reply fro msummit racing, they have informed me that there was only 14# injectors used i n300-6 in my model year, and i did more research, looks to be, you cant even buy any injectors for most fords that are below 14#, so i feel there is a serious miscommunication here. I would also like to ask, where did you see that the accel injectors have a requirement of less PSI?
Download the Accel catalog (about 15mb pdf) and go to their page 189.
The 15lb injectors are "rated" by Acell at 39.2lbs or 43.5lbs of fuel pressure (as per their spec sheet). You're putting more fuel pressure than the "rated/specification" pressure thus making the injectors flow far more than the listed 15lbs. that they're "speced" at. Your 15lb injectors are performing like 21lb injectors.....because they're being fed about 40% more fuel pressure than they're rated at. That's using simple math and not accounting for any formulas that are probably used to derive the "real" actual output of the 15lb injectors you're using at the fuel pressure your truck provides.
there is a formula for working out your fuel setup,
Injector Flow Rate * √ (New Pressure / Old Pressure)
Yep, that is correct !!
so if you can find me a webl ink that is coming from a certified source stating this engine came out wit h12#/hr injectors, forward me a copy of the link, and a link to buy new 12#/hr injectors would be nice, even though i have spent the last hour looking to no luck whatsoever.
I replaced mine several years ago, and purchased them from NAPA.
I'll get you the two links you asked for later today.........I'm at work and I have to put this down for now and tend to some "business". Maybe in the meantime, someone will step in here and provide those links you requested.
cmon, i have had this truck running in tip top shape more than not, and i seriously dont see how it can sit at idle, throttle closed and run fine, but giving it more throttle choking it out is TOO MUCH FUEL.
Your Idle air control was adding (probably wide open) the needed air while the truck was idling. Remember when/where you posted that your IAC was hot ????
The IAC was most likely running/opening at 100% via the computer just to make it idle. Once you opened the throttle the "over-fueling" injectors started pulsing faster which in turn started flooding out the sytem.... the computer was thouroghly confused. The EGR valve may also have been running at 100% (via the EVR solenoid) when you opened the throttle (via the TPS input) to try and lean out the system as well.
You may have a burned out IAC and a burned out EVR solenoid because the computer was trying to get as much air in the system as it possibly could !!! That's why in my previous post I mentioned that the EVR solenoid may be bad.
if anything, sitting at idle would flood the motor and stepping on the throttle would increase air/fuel mixture making it run better and the smell of rich fuel would be present which it is not at this time..
Just as a test, have someone hold the throttle open a little bit and go to the tailpipe and sniff the exhaust (obviously not too long) and see if it smells rich. I'll bet it does !!!
and it sure as heck doesnt explain how my harmonic balancer all of a sudden isnt in-line with no 1 being at TDC.
A common mistake is to time the motor off the "notch" instead of by the fine groove on the balancer....double check that, and yes, the balancer can slip too.
Are you timing the motor with the SPOUT connector removed as well ???
im sure its possible the rubber seal can break on the balancer and allow it to spin, but wouldnt it wobble???
Not necessarily
Download the Accel catalog (about 15mb pdf) and go to their page 189.
The 15lb injectors are "rated" by Acell at 39.2lbs or 43.5lbs of fuel pressure (as per their spec sheet). You're putting more fuel pressure than the "rated/specification" pressure thus making the injectors flow far more than the listed 15lbs. that they're "speced" at. Your 15lb injectors are performing like 21lb injectors.....because they're being fed about 40% more fuel pressure than they're rated at. That's using simple math and not accounting for any formulas that are probably used to derive the "real" actual output of the 15lb injectors you're using at the fuel pressure your truck provides.
there is a formula for working out your fuel setup,
Injector Flow Rate * √ (New Pressure / Old Pressure)
Yep, that is correct !!
so if you can find me a webl ink that is coming from a certified source stating this engine came out wit h12#/hr injectors, forward me a copy of the link, and a link to buy new 12#/hr injectors would be nice, even though i have spent the last hour looking to no luck whatsoever.
I replaced mine several years ago, and purchased them from NAPA.
I'll get you the two links you asked for later today.........I'm at work and I have to put this down for now and tend to some "business". Maybe in the meantime, someone will step in here and provide those links you requested.
cmon, i have had this truck running in tip top shape more than not, and i seriously dont see how it can sit at idle, throttle closed and run fine, but giving it more throttle choking it out is TOO MUCH FUEL.
Your Idle air control was adding (probably wide open) the needed air while the truck was idling. Remember when/where you posted that your IAC was hot ????
The IAC was most likely running/opening at 100% via the computer just to make it idle. Once you opened the throttle the "over-fueling" injectors started pulsing faster which in turn started flooding out the sytem.... the computer was thouroghly confused. The EGR valve may also have been running at 100% (via the EVR solenoid) when you opened the throttle (via the TPS input) to try and lean out the system as well.
You may have a burned out IAC and a burned out EVR solenoid because the computer was trying to get as much air in the system as it possibly could !!! That's why in my previous post I mentioned that the EVR solenoid may be bad.
if anything, sitting at idle would flood the motor and stepping on the throttle would increase air/fuel mixture making it run better and the smell of rich fuel would be present which it is not at this time..
Just as a test, have someone hold the throttle open a little bit and go to the tailpipe and sniff the exhaust (obviously not too long) and see if it smells rich. I'll bet it does !!!
and it sure as heck doesnt explain how my harmonic balancer all of a sudden isnt in-line with no 1 being at TDC.
A common mistake is to time the motor off the "notch" instead of by the fine groove on the balancer....double check that, and yes, the balancer can slip too.
Are you timing the motor with the SPOUT connector removed as well ???
im sure its possible the rubber seal can break on the balancer and allow it to spin, but wouldnt it wobble???
Not necessarily
"a link to buy new 12#/hr injectors would be nice"
Summit sells them:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SM...mmitRacing.com
NAPA sells them :NAPA AUTO PARTS
Autozone sells them:GP Sorensen/Fuel Injector (800-1014N) | 1990 Ford F150 1/2 ton P/U 2WD 6 Cylinders Y 4.9L FI | AutoZone.com
O'Reilly's/Checkers sells them:Motorcraft CM4722 - Fuel Injector | O'Reilly Auto Parts
Hope some of this helps you,
Bob
#64
08-30-2012, 03:59 PM
I believe i read somewhere in your post that you are checking mechanical timing at 10* before tdc if so you are the first person I've ever known to do so. Also your fuel system mechanically as well as electronically increases fuel flow as you open the throttle via the fuel pressure regulator so yes it is very possible that it idled fine and ran poorly. Also you could have had a sensor registering incorrectly which masked the problem until you changed it. The possibilitys are endless. As far as the 12lb/hr spec goes I got that from the 15 Years I spent as a Ford dealer technician and when my dad died 7 years ago I took over his heavy equipment machine shop but I will call my friends at the dealership and see if they can email me the injector specs so i can post them. And accell does list flow rate fuel pressure on their web site. Again good luck and let us know.
#65
08-30-2012, 04:05 PM
Also I almost forgot there is a very good tech article on fuel system modification on the 300 on a site called www.bigblocksix.com i think.I will check that and fix it if it's wrong.
#67
08-30-2012, 04:51 PM
Elder User
Bob
#68
08-30-2012, 05:06 PM
Elder User
I believe i read somewhere in your post that you are checking mechanical timing at 10* before tdc if so you are the first person I've ever known to do so. Also your fuel system mechanically as well as electronically increases fuel flow as you open the throttle via the fuel pressure regulator so yes it is very possible that it idled fine and ran poorly. Also you could have had a sensor registering incorrectly which masked the problem until you changed it. The possibilitys are endless. As far as the 12lb/hr spec goes I got that from the 15 Years I spent as a Ford dealer technician and when my dad died 7 years ago I took over his heavy equipment machine shop but I will call my friends at the dealership and see if they can email me the injector specs so i can post them. And accell does list flow rate fuel pressure on their web site. Again good luck and let us know.
Please edit this statement to read as:"Also your fuel system mechanically as well as electronically increases fuel flow as you open the throttle via the fuel pressure regulator and the injector pulse rate. So yes it is very possible that it idled fine and ran poorly."
Just trying to "set the record straight" !!!
We OBVIOUSLY don't want to add any more confusion to this situation.
Bob
#69
08-30-2012, 05:27 PM
#70
08-30-2012, 05:48 PM
Elder User
I'm right there with ya' bud
Bob
#71
08-30-2012, 06:04 PM
Sorry for all the posts but I need to get this off my chest. Professional mechanics have been fighting this for years and by this I mean misinformation by so called tech experts on the other end of a phone at a parts warehouse or aftermarket parts supplier who can't possible have access to every spec for every vehicle ever built but will read from a Que screen as if it were the gospel truth and make claims like compatible or direct replacement even though it has completely different specs but it's compatible because it's demensionally the same. I guess my point is that the aftermarket can claim just about anything that they want and get away with it because it is suppose to be your responsibility to do all the foot work to make sure it'll work before you buy. I guess PT Barnum said it best "a fool and his money are easily parted". For instance if I said I'll sell you ocean front property in Montana you wouldn't believe me but if I said I'll sell you a programmer guaranteed to add 100 horsepower someone would buy it in an instant without any proof that ot actually works. So in closing always do your homework then your shopping there are lots of knowledgeable people in these forums with lots of great information and Im not saying that your problem is the injectors just that they aren't helping you find the real problem any faster. Again good luck and keep us informed after all you never stop learning new things.
#72
08-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Elder User
Sorry for all the posts but I need to get this off my chest. Professional mechanics have been fighting this for years and by this I mean misinformation by so called tech experts on the other end of a phone at a parts warehouse or aftermarket parts supplier who can't possible have access to every spec for every vehicle ever built but will read from a Que screen as if it were the gospel truth and make claims like compatible or direct replacement even though it has completely different specs but it's compatible because it's demensionally the same. I guess my point is that the aftermarket can claim just about anything that they want and get away with it because it is suppose to be your responsibility to do all the foot work to make sure it'll work before you buy. I guess PT Barnum said it best "a fool and his money are easily parted". For instance if I said I'll sell you ocean front property in Montana you wouldn't believe me but if I said I'll sell you a programmer guaranteed to add 100 horsepower someone would buy it in an instant without any proof that ot actually works. So in closing always do your homework then your shopping there are lots of knowledgeable people in these forums with lots of great information and Im not saying that your problem is the injectors just that they aren't helping you find the real problem any faster. Again good luck and keep us informed after all you never stop learning new things.
#73
08-30-2012, 07:36 PM
Join Date: Apr 2006
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#74
08-30-2012, 08:05 PM
Elder User
"ok, anyone know where i can get a new SPOUT for the distributor??? i never had the real thing on this truck, there was always a paperclip wire in-place. and internet obviously isnt doing me justice right now.... if anyone has one or knows where i can get one, id be greatly appreciated"
July 22, 2012 your first sentence in your first post here was:
"ok, so the issue started one afternoon on m yway home, it was running fine then, BAM started running like crap... had to pump the pedal to get e moving... its fuel injected. hence my problem is stupid."
Today I wrote:
"Are you timing the motor with the SPOUT connector removed as well ???"
Is it possible your "paperclip wire" fell out of the spout connector thus causing your sudden problems and you just haven't noticed it missing yet ????
No spout connector plus overfueling = total disaster !!!
Bob
#75
08-31-2012, 02:46 PM
I went back and searched the posts and Bob is correct did you ever find a spout connector prior to this post as a paper clip is not a spout connected and even though it appears to be in place does not guarantee a proper connection and could lead to an intermittent symptom that could be here today and gone tomorrow and coupled with the excess fuel could present as a serious problem. Nice catch Bob also is there anymore info we should have addons or homemade. When asking for help with a problem we can't see information is key.