Thank you Jose, for the roof measurements and advice. Albeit the latter was a little late, I had already sent a certified check and received the title.

You can add my experience to your "people on craigslist and autotrader lie" view. The seller had advertised it as "immaculate", "won't find a nicer one", "as close to perfect as one could get", etc... But a few days before I flew down to pick it up, he calls me and says "hey, I was washing and waxing it this evening while using a step ladder for the roof, and I noticed a bunch of dings... You really can't notice it without a step ladder, but let me know what a fair adjustment will be and I'll refund the difference." So I'm thinking, oh boy, hail damage. To be honest I couldn't care less what the roof looks like, thinking about putting a hightop on it anyway, and figure I'll make that decision when I get there.

Well I get there and the first thing I notice randomly placed but identical marks in the back bumper. I know the kind and what causes them... sure enough, I look under the back and I see wiring for a trailer. Would have been nice if the previous PO or dealer had left the hitch on it. I see the shut lines of the hatch are askew. Numerous door dings and even a couple larger, very shallow but somewhat wide basketball/bodycheck dents. Concentric marring consistent with an egg hit. A key scratch or three up high, curb rash down low. Overspray of green onto the silver, wasn't even masked off straight. And yes, the tackwelded seam under the rocker panel was flattened, presumably by the lazy mechanic lifts you mentioned. Oh yeah, and the hail damage which is indeed clearly visible from the front, as well as on the side above the back windows. Rear dent/crease/crinkle at the back corner. In and off itself, none of this is a deal-breaker for a general car purchase. Mind you its all very clean (obviously detailed and waxed for sale), and the paint has an excellent gloss... But the body wasn't in kbb "excellent condition" much less the over and above premium he was asking.

Mechanically, the 119k motor was and remains quiet with no valvetrain noise. AC works wonderfully. Cruise, which seems vacuum actuated, works intermittently (and weakly, losing speed and disengaging on hills) -- but I expected that. All the tires are fairly new, but there is a very noticable amount of cupping on the outside of the front drivers. Brakes are competent but vague-ish, I don't know if that's typical with these vans. There's been some fluid seepage along the bottom of the transmission pan (hopefully gasket) and some seepage along the rear diff (definitely a gasket issue as it looks like whoever last serviced it used goop instead of a gasket. Of course as I'm pointing all of these things out, he keeps saying "oh I never noticed that before". Then tries to diminish the concerns with "well, it is a 15 year old vehicle"... And he has a point there -- but that doesn't mean it's in bluebook "excellent" condition, much less deserving of a price significantly higher than that.

On the plus side, the interior is extremely clean with very little wear (aside from the driver door card which seems to be common) it rides well, tracks straight, with no pulling to either side. No visible rust, on or under the vehicle. Exhaust is in good shape. It looks like it has an extra (or two?) transmission cooler ahead of the radiator. It's a B9 rear, which will be handy at the boat ramp, and the shocks were replaced with the Sensatrac -- which gives it a nice stance with no sag (yes, they're floaty at speed). After the refund, it wasn't a terrible deal -- dare I say decent, depending on what is necessary to correct the tire wear -- I just would have appreciated knowing this stuff in advance, so I could have been in a stronger position to negotiate.

I wish that people would tell the truth, the whole truth, more often. A half truth, omitting pertinent details, isn't the truth. FWIW, the seller was a lawyer -- so I expect him to know that... but not necessarily practice it.

<--- Don't even get me started on internet dating...

 

OHAerO,
you are welcome and I am sorry it was misrepresented. That is exactly my experience with sellers. I guess you'll have to make the best of a bad experience. What did you pay after all was said and done?

yes, the "well it's 15 years old" excuse is one I forgot to mention; I heard it about 6 times between March and May this year, RED FLAG! Note I have a 1984 and a 1965 Jaguar and they are really like new, so that excuse translates into: "well I haven't taken much care of it in 15 years"

I'm sure you will buy another one (they are selling for a song), but next one you need to inspect in person before laying any money on the table. Now you know what to look for.

The little seepage/leaks in the transmission pan and differential cover are normal. Watch the floor where you park it and it will tell you where if any there's anything more serious. The driver's door interior panel "form" always cracks in these vans; Remove it by prying it carefully (there are between 10 and 11 "barbed" plastic retainers behind it, starting at the 10 o'clock position left to right, then 9, 7, 6, 6, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1 o'clock. You need the proper tool to pry otherwise you end up cracking the panel even more. (Harbor Freight Tools has the tool, looks like a short lawnmower blade).

once removed, buy a Fiberglass Repair Kit at Walmart or Autozone; Apply sheets of fiberglass cloth with resin and catalyst to the cracked areas and that will reinforce it nicely. I even glued upholstery insulation to the back of both front door panels to make it quieter inside. Replacement barbed retainers are Dorman 963-010 sold in a pack of 15 at Autozone. (unfortunately those have to be replaced every time you pull them, otherwise the panel remains lose).

Cruise Control: if you have the Owner's Manual, check the fuse for the CC, if it looks fine, replace it. (trust me, I have experience with good fuses).
Recently my ABS light was ON; Couldn't figure out why; The Owner's Manual said "check Fuse Number 7 if ABS acts erratically". I pulled fuse number 7 and it looked fine, like new; But I went ahead and replaced it and the light went off !!!

at the worse case, it could be the CC Relay or the Actuator but I doubt it, usually the CC is reliable; Call your local salvage yards to see if they have any Aerostar, that way you can get used parts cheap.

Last, there are experienced members here who can help with any issues. I'm just a trial-and-error-nician.

 

Truthfully, while new tires is always a nice selling point, its also another way people can pull the wool over your eyes. It is common for people to put on new tires to mask suspension and alignment problems.

 

the cruise C. issue is probably the infamous Aero miles of vacuum lines leaks. search vacuum line leaks on here. you'll be sick and tired of little plastic hoses by the time you get all of them fixed.
can also be engine performance issues, the PCM is prog'd to drop out of cruise and OD if there is engine problems. also check the speed sensor.

brakes should be firm and stop well. often the shoe/cyl rear brakes have cyl. corrosion issues on these or the RABS has problems. use only top line semi metallic pads and shoes- has the highest heat transfer and braking coefficient, new calipers with steel upgrade pistons and new rear cyl's. new rotors with the new pads helps also for perfect pad break in and max breaking efficiency. change front flex brake hoses, they break down internally and release crud particles plugging up the system.
flush and replace brake fluid every 2>3 years, saves lots of RABS and rear brake problems. brake fluid is hydroscopic, sucks up any moisture which causes rust in calipers and pistons plus the RABS and combination valves.

cant' beat KYB Gas-Adjust shocks front and rear on these, solves much of the Aero butt hop and rock and belly top heavy rolling.

Caveat emptor when buying Aerostars and women

used car salemen are like pimps, take your money and .....
lawyers are pimps on steroids, trained, licensed and paid to lie

 

Thank you for all the info regarding the door panels and CC fuse. Final price was $3350. Here is the ad, for $4250: Cars for Sale: 1997 Ford Aerostar Extended Van in Nashville, TN 37205: Van Details - 322185541 - AutoTrader.com He did meet me at the airport, provided a full tank of gas, and even let me drive home with his old plate (I had planned to borrow mine from my TJ, otherwise TN sales tax and temp tag would have cost me >$110 more than what I paid to Ohio). I think those little courtesies were worth something in and of themselves.

In the last picture of the first row, I can actually make out some of the hail damage above the rear windows, another hail ding just above the driver's rain gutter, and even the faintest outline of a scratch in the driver's door. I can also barely discern the larger shallow dents just below and ahead of the fuel door (which itself is difficult to discern)... only because I know it exists and where to look for it now. None of it is end-of-the-world stuff -- I was just surprised at how much detail a digital photo will lose. Perhaps I just don't cope well with surprises, or didn't like being caught in a position of reduced negotiating power.

Indeed. My '96 Jetta and '02 Wrangler have less rash on the body, and the latter has been to Moab and more trails than I can count... Same with the '73 VW Bus (which this replaces), '70 Saab, '87 Alfa etc. The other thing I'm now wary of is the value of CarFax. It's definitely had a respray already (I see green overspray onto the silver, and can see where the green as been blended on the A-pillar). I have a hunch if ownership passes through a dealer at any point, they'll do work without entering into the CarFax system.

Perhaps I just treat things differently than most people, and thus have different standards/expectations.

More on the cruise control below...

 

Bingo. When I was giving it the once-over upon arrival, he pointed at the Cooper TrendSetter SEs and said "and they're new tires, I'm not sure what performance level they are." I had to bite my tongue to keep from responding "They're what dealers put on to sell a car."

I think what tripped my BS-meter was the mention of the custom driver's side floor mat (the only floor mat included in the purchase) tailor "made specifically for Aerostars", that "he's used through four states and just as many Aerostars" The latter may be true, but I recognized it as the same mat I've had in my Jetta and Alfa, most recently purchased prêt-à-porter from Wallyworld. Again, I appreciate tossing in a single though kind od dirty tan floor mat so my shoes don't mark up the otherwise clean grey carpet... but just be honest, man, and don't embellish.

(I've since ordered a full set -- three rows and cargo -- of Lloyd's mats, to protect what is indeed very clean factory carpet)

 

I was checking one in Nashville too, (in Murfreesboro) for $1,900. asking price. Maroon color, 1995, unsold. Extended body with a 3 liter engine, (those are rare), but the van was in nice condition. I sent a friend in Nashville to go see it and he sent me pictures of every damage it had and it was nothing to worry about.

had you come here first I would have referred you a couple of other vans in Florida, one in particular, a Gold Extended with a 3.0 liter engine but in excellent shape, which is still unsold for $2,500. I was looking for the 4.0 liter extended, but I almost bought that one.

Keep your eyes open, they show up daily, and you will find another in choice condition for a lot less money.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking; as that's how the Wrangler's CC behaved until I found the loose link. I picked up a FoMoCo Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting manual from fleabay, we'll see how far that gets me. Let's hope not, but thanks for the heads-up. I'm already going to dig up the PMOS how-to, as the speedo is reading about 7% too fast. On the bright side, I drove ~300 miles back home, up and down hills at freeway speeds, and the transmission never popped out of overdrive aside from the couple times I manually disengaged it to test.

It's simply more mush than I'm accustomed to. I'll probably start with simply replacing the fluid (and maybe front lines, what you've described happens with a lot of cars), then go from there.

Yep, that's what I've read so far. Also looking at Airlift helper bags and a Helwig for towing.

Agreed wholeheartedly!

 

There's also a gold 4.0 ext Eddie Bauer in FL going for $3500 obo on Ebay. Been through bidding twice and it only hit $1500 or so. Saggy rear. Text says "no dents or dings", but clearly there is a dent below the passenger tail light in the photo.

 

yes, I think it's overpriced and as you can see, the seller is blind, he doesn't "see" the dent which is obvious to everybody else. I bet he claims it is "inmaculate" too.

 

I had a strong feeling that was the van you bought! I was talking with the owner and would have made the trip if not for being very very busy as of late. You appear to be content with everything, which is good to hear. I probably would not have been. I am slowly becoming convinced all Aerostars at one time have been touched by somebody with half a brain. This is why I have not pulled the trigger in the past 3 years on a 'new' Aerostar. The jack point damage is a big one with me.

 

I looked at the ad for the Aerostar you bought and it really looks good. But you can't tell it has been repainted from the pictures. If the interior is flawless like you said, then the rest can be detailed fine. elbow grease and TLC.

the one I bought showed up one morning in Craigslist, I called the guy and he gave me the complete history over the phone, he was willing to go outside and take pictures of the rocker panels, (he didn't know what a rocker panel is).

when I saw the pictures I could tell the rocker panels were intact. By late evening I was in Tampa to see it in person. I always bring a large beach towel and slide myself under the vans dissapearing with a flashlight to everyone's dismay!. It was unrusted, no leaks anywhere, checking to make sure it wasn't a "Flood Baby", (easy to find out because they can never remove all the mud stains from every crevice).

as he kept telling me about the issues it had, I kept deducting dollars off the price, so when I was satisfied, I pulled the cash from my pocket and handed it to him: "I can pay you THIS much for this van considering the repairs it needs", and asking him at the same time: "have you seen the condition under the van?", "No, I wouldn't know what to look for", he said. He counted the money ($1,500.) and said, "ok, it's a deal". (He was asking $2,400.).

I never got to tell him that the van was perfect underneath.

 

Jack point damage is a biggie. It causes poor water drainage, and if the water has nowhere to go, it damages the panel front eh inside and rots through. It costs about $2000 to fix.

 

well Khan, I thought I was the only one who suffers damaged rocker panels!

however, with the right tool, the bent "lip" or "spline" can be pulled down and straightened;

if needed, new sheetmetal rocker panels are available, so they can be replaced/repainted.

I think the problem started at the design table; If the jacking points had been made more visible, like ½" below the horizontal "lip" line, it would be more obvious where to set the jack or the lift arms front and rear. But they weren't....

the last time I took my 1992 Aerostar for new front tires, and before selling it, I printed and taped a piece of paper on each corner that said:

"DO NOT PLACE LIFTING ARMS BELOW THE BODY SHEET METAL ROCKER PANELS: LOOK FOR THE LIFTING POINTS BEHIND THE HORIZONTAL BOTTOM EDGE ON EACH FRONT and REAR CORNER !"

hey, if I don't protect my vehicle, nobody will.

 

I think about the worst part of rocker panel damage from improper jacking is like what happened to mine. I didn't notice it until a few months later, and by that time, it was impossible to get the grease monkeys at Sears to admit to their mistake.