It looks like Navistar has lost all the way around, but thanks to the EPA it seems that there is no wiggle room for new technology, its their way (EPA) or the "hiway" no pun intended....Ya think this might have some bearing on why Ford dropped Navistar?

Heres the link folks:

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/artic...ses-epa-ruling

 

I think this possibly had some bearing in the end. Ford knew this type of technology would not go past 2009. It is deadended.

 

I think the same. I do believe there may have been other avenues to pursue to satisfy the EPA. It just seems odd that Navistar had made diesel engines for years and they were trying to find a solution out of the mainstream. You wonder if Ford, their largest buyer of motors, had an influence in the decision to move in that "other' direction and then dropped them when the heat started. Oh well....

 

It's either DEF or exhaust regen systems to meet the CARB standards set by the EPA; both of which make it cost prohibitive to the average consumer.

 

Whats with the urea buisness for the exhaust on the new diesels???

 

Urea takes care of the NOx

 

Navistar wasn't alone in paying penalties, Cummins was in the same boat.

 

Thanks to the EPA?

The EPA does not care how you meet emissions standards - only that you do. You don't have to use SCR/Urea, but its currently the method that works the best.

These emissions standards were laid down in 2001 and have been in effect since 2010. 11 Years later and Navistar still hasn't gotten their act together. The only one at fault here is Navistar. The 6.0 disaster, 6.4 teething issues and their Medium/Heavy-Duty engine troubles all indicate incompetent management as well as poor engineering and testing practices.

Ford knew this and broke things off with Navistar.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I seem to recollect Caterpillar withdrew from the on-road engine market as soon as the new emission standards took effect.

 

You know I believe you are right. CAT did pull out of that market. Now with the current push to make EPA standards for heavier vehicles conclusive by 2014, I wonder how that will play into all of the manufacturers hands?

 

Isn't cummins still using huge EGR instead of urea?

 

From what I've been told, the 6.0 and 6.4 did much better for international than ford.

Internationals 6.4 now is a CGI block, 1 massive EGR cooler, and went to dual sequential turbochargers.

 

Talk to school bus or large truck fleet operators. Even when detuned to ~240HP in heavy-truck tunes, the 6.0 still had tons of issues.

 

I hear a few complaints, but nothing serious..

240 HP is less than the ford version, but ford tuning also uses higher RPM's, so I suspect the combustion pressures would be similar.

 

Not just headgasket failures from combustion pressure, but injector failures, oil cooler failures, EGR cooler failures and much more.

Just search "VT365 Problems" on Google.