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T5 Tranny and 351W mounting questions

 
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:52 PM
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T5 Tranny and 351W mounting questions

Hey Fellas,

It's been a while. My son and I haven't turned a wrench since spring break. But summer vacation is upon us and so are new truck mysteries.

We mounted the 351W and T5 WC tranny onto the frame this morning. The tail housing mounting pad on the tranny doesn't sit flush with anything on the frame or line up with any holes on the frame. I am assuming I am missing a mounting bracket of some kind. Please see the first two pics below and let me know your thoughts.

My second issue MAY be related to the first, but I actually think I am OK on this one...just want to make sure. As you can see in the second two pics, the engine mount "ears" have two holes, a forward one and a rearward one. The driver's side engine mount "ear" lines up with the forward hole, while the passenger's side lines up with the rearward hole. I think I was told or read somewhere that that was to be expected, but just trying to verify. The engine looks square to me.






 
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:23 AM
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Now you need the T-5 mounting pad. Any parts store should be able to fix you up. As far as the engine mounting, don't see any problem but I would be curious as to which isn't the same, mounts on the frame or bolt bosses on the block. Double check that the tail shaft is equidistant between the rails. Be sure and use grade 8 bolts on this stuff.
 
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lorolr View Post
Now you need the T-5 mounting pad. Any parts store should be able to fix you up. As far as the engine mounting, don't see any problem but I would be curious as to which isn't the same, mounts on the frame or bolt bosses on the block. Double check that the tail shaft is equidistant between the rails. Be sure and use grade 8 bolts on this stuff.
Thanks Bill. I was poking around on the internet and found a mounting pad that looked familiar. I am starting to think I have one around here and have misplaced it. As far as the grade 8 bolts, I am using them as much as possible. My engine mounts came with the ones you see in the pics. I don't know what grade they are, or how to tell, other than the grade 8 bolts from Ace hardware are typically kind of gold or brass colored. Is that always true across the board? Also my engine mounts are the hockey puck style with that black rubber damper you see in the pics. Do you think a grade 8 bolt would be pointless there. Isn't the rubber the weak link anyway--or at least the soft link--by design?

t
 
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:49 PM
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Bill I just checked on what is causing the difference on the engine mounts. It is the bolt bosses on the block. Measured (with a flat piece of board as a square) from the front of the timing cover the DS is about 9" back to the first mount bolt. The PS is only about 8". Mystery solved.
T
 
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:28 PM
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Tyler- The method for determining whether a bolt is grade 2, grade 5, or grade 8 is as follows: grade 2 typically has no markings on the head, and are too soft for anything requiring much strength. They are easily obtained at most hardware stores, but should avoided for automotive use. Grade 5 has three lines radiating out from the center of the head, generally pointing toward every other corner of the six-sided bolt head. Most fasteners used in the automotive world are at least grade 5, and they should be good for all but the most severe applications. Grade 8 bolts have six lines radiating from the center, each pointing at a corner of the bolt head. They are obviously stronger than the other two, and in my experience, you might find them attaching the flywheel to the crank, or the pressure plate to the flywheel. Obviously, the stronger a fastener is, the more expensive it is. You should always use the best fastener you can afford. The color is not always a good indicator of the bolt grade, but frequently the grade 8 are gold. There is a grade above grade 8, referred to as supertanium, that are silver, as are the grade 5, so don't rely on the color, look for the markings on the head.
 

Last edited by Old Iron 68X; 05-27-2012 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Misspelling
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:02 PM
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Hey Thanks Iron. I guess it woulda been too easy to just print 2, 5, 8 or whatever on them eh?

Anybody have any advice on what tranny mount I need? I looked at the local parts store and the stuff they had for mustangs with the T5 were way too wide. My tail housing is a Chevy tail housing because the ford tail housings bring the shifter up too far to the rear--like in the middle of the bench seat. The standard fix for that is to put on a chevy tail housing with the shifter further forward.

Thanks! T
 

Last edited by Tyler S; 05-27-2012 at 04:17 PM. Reason: spelling
  #7  
Old 05-27-2012, 04:39 PM
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Ah..The ol' domino effect. Ty..your tail shaft mount should have 2 wide holes at the top to fit the tail shaft and 2 narrower threaded holes on the bottom to fit the cross member pad. Take your bolt measurements to Merle's and let them get in the spec book and find one that fits your needs. Ford, Chev, Dodge doesn't matter.
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Iron 68X View Post
Tyler- The method for determining whether a bolt is grade 2, grade 5, or grade 8 is as follows: grade 2 typically has no markings on the head, and are too soft for anything requiring much strength. They are easily obtained at most hardware stores, but should avoided for automotive use. Grade 5 has three lines radiating out from the center of the head, generally pointing toward every other corner of the six-sided bolt head. Most fasteners used in the automotive world are at least grade 5, and they should be good for all but the most severe applications. Grade 8 bolts have six lines radiating from the center, each pointing at a corner of the bolt head. They are obviously stronger than the other two, and in my experience, you might find them attaching the flywheel to the crank, or the pressure plate to the flywheel. Obviously, the stronger a fastener is, the more expensive it is. You should always use the best fastener you can afford. The color is not always a good indicator of the bolt grade, but frequently the grade 8 are gold. There is a grade above grade 8, referred to as supertanium, that are silver, as are the grade 5, so don't rely on the color, look for the markings on the head.
Dumb question...gradewise...where does stainless fit in?
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:47 AM
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If I recall correctly, stainless steel bolts are weaker than steel bolts and more brittle. ARP bolts may be the exception. I think carbon content is a player. They are probably no stronger than between grade 2 and 5
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lorolr View Post
If I recall correctly, stainless steel bolts are weaker than steel bolts and more brittle. ARP bolts may be the exception. I think carbon content is a player. They are probably no stronger than between grade 2 and 5
I guess I could have googled that, but thanks! I would have guessed stronger than grade 8, but the brittle thing does make sense.
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:07 AM
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stainless

you know, just my 2cents,

I had my 66 Mustang engine rebuilt back in 94, and we used the ARP stainless bolt kit on it, looked good but....

The stainless bolts would not stay tourqed, the intake and the valve covers allways got loose, even the dern oilpan ss bolts backed out.

Now, I'm not sure if we should have used a threadlocker on everything but it was almost like the cast iron block and the SS bolts wouldn't bite and hold.

thread locker helped.
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by doublecanister View Post
you know, just my 2cents,

I had my 66 Mustang engine rebuilt back in 94, and we used the ARP stainless bolt kit on it, looked good but....

The stainless bolts would not stay tourqed, the intake and the valve covers allways got loose, even the dern oilpan ss bolts backed out.

Now, I'm not sure if we should have used a threadlocker on everything but it was almost like the cast iron block and the SS bolts wouldn't bite and hold.

thread locker helped.
I'm not gonna waste my money on stainless bolts on the motor. Doesn't make it go any faster! I may use a few on top, but really doubt it. Read your dilemma with the tailshaft/driveshaft...bummer man.
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:07 AM
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Jeff-
Stainless steel comes in many grades and alloys, just like regular steel. I have asked this question of Doc, of Totally Stainless, and they offer several grades of stainless fasteners, some that are as strong as grade 8. Stainless steel was originally used for its corrosion resistance, not its strength. Some alloys are fairly soft. I'll bet you've got a stainless kitchen sink somewhere, and they are stamped from stainless steel, and the alloy has to be fairly soft to be formed like that without ripping.
If anyone has more questions about stainless fasteners, I would recommend Totally Stainless- fasteners are all they do, and I have dealt with them on several occasions. They know their stuff!
 

Last edited by Old Iron 68X; 05-28-2012 at 10:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lorolr View Post
Ah..The ol' domino effect. Ty..your tail shaft mount should have 2 wide holes at the top to fit the tail shaft and 2 narrower threaded holes on the bottom to fit the cross member pad. Take your bolt measurements to Merle's and let them get in the spec book and find one that fits your needs. Ford, Chev, Dodge doesn't matter.
Yes indeed. The dominos fall. Fortunately there were only a couple dominos in this progression. I reached the same conclusion as you did above Bill. I found a mount on the internet at summit racing that I wanted to order (Energy Suspension), then found the same one here in town at Pep Boys and they were even open on Sunday! Anyway, I went down and bought it and it fits well.

Great discussion on bolts and hardness! I learned a lot on this thread about something that has been rather a mystery to me. Thanks to all of you on the bolt smarts, especially Old Iron!

Best, Tyler
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:50 AM
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Related to the nuts and bolts discussion above...what is the conventional wisdom as to when one needs to use a lock washer vs a flat washer vs thread lock vs nothing?

t
 

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