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T5 Tranny and 351W mounting questions

 
  #16  
Old 05-28-2012, 12:40 PM
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Tyler-
Any fastener would benefit from a washer of some type, unless clearance becomes an issue. There is a radius under the head of a bolt, and it might contact the hole in the bracket, and prevent the load from being distributed properly. So, using nothing is not really a good option. The use of a washer will allow the head of the bolt to distribute the load into the pieces being held together.
Split- ring lock washers are used in places where vibration or heating cycles may cause a fastener to back out during normal use. Keep in mind that they may cause marking of the mounting surfaces.
Flat washers come in several types: USS (United States Steel), SAE ( Society of Automotive Engineers), and AN (Army/Navy-typically used on braided stainless hose and related fittings). USS is the most common, are what you will find in hardware stores, and are of slightly larger outer diameter than SAE washers. SAE will fit in tighter applications, and were used by the auto industry. They are probably only available from nut and bolt suppliers, not parts stores.
Loc-tite type should only be used when no other option is available, but will work well and come in several strengths, some so good that you may damage the parts trying to remove them.
In summary, use a washer whenever possible, unless clearance is an issue. They help distribute the loads and prevent damage to the parts being held together. I used to race stock cars, and every bolt got washers and a positive locking nut, loc-tite, a cotter key, or safety wire.
 
  #17  
Old 05-28-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Iron 68X View Post
Tyler-
Any fastener would benefit from a washer of some type, unless clearance becomes an issue. There is a radius under the head of a bolt, and it might contact the hole in the bracket, and prevent the load from being distributed properly. So, using nothing is not really a good option. The use of a washer will allow the head of the bolt to distribute the load into the pieces being held together.
Split- ring lock washers are used in places where vibration or heating cycles may cause a fastener to back out during normal use. Keep in mind that they may cause marking of the mounting surfaces.
Flat washers come in several types: USS (United States Steel), SAE ( Society of Automotive Engineers), and AN (Army/Navy-typically used on braided stainless hose and related fittings). USS is the most common, are what you will find in hardware stores, and are of slightly larger outer diameter than SAE washers. SAE will fit in tighter applications, and were used by the auto industry. They are probably only available from nut and bolt suppliers, not parts stores.
Loc-tite type should only be used when no other option is available, but will work well and come in several strengths, some so good that you may damage the parts trying to remove them.
In summary, use a washer whenever possible, unless clearance is an issue. They help distribute the loads and prevent damage to the parts being held together. I used to race stock cars, and every bolt got washers and a positive locking nut, loc-tite, a cotter key, or safety wire.
Excellent summary. Thank you!

t
 
  #18  
Old 05-28-2012, 02:15 PM
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Ok, since we are gonna play with our nuts here,
Uh...I mean.......oh whatever...you know what I mean....talk nuts and bolts...
I agree with old iron, but I never have understood how connecting rods and main bearing cap bolts, stay together. I know they are a National Fine thread(connecting rod), but it's wierd how there is no locking mechanism to them...Let's go there!
 
  #19  
Old 05-28-2012, 02:25 PM
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Head bolts and connecting rod bolts are engineered so that the torque on them actually stretches the bolt to the point where the friction on the nut/head keeps it from coming loose. They make special micrometers that are used to read rod bolt stretch.
 

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  #20  
Old 05-28-2012, 03:01 PM
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Tyler-
By the way, I wanted to ask about the T-5. How much are used ones worth, how much did you spend to get it ready, and how does it fit now that you have installed it? I've been thinking about finding one myself.
 
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyler S View Post
Related to the nuts and bolts discussion above...what is the conventional wisdom as to when one needs to use a lock washer vs a flat washer vs thread lock vs nothing?

t
The reality is that split-ring lock washers do very little for maintaining torque or keeping bolts from coming loose. Thread lock is the modern way. Proper torque is important. Note that none of the head bolts, connecting rod nuts, or main bearing cap bolts on a flathead Ford have lock washers.

That mostly applies to engine assembly bolts, tho. On body panels, the vibration is different and high bolt torques aren't common. They do seem to help there, but if you really want it to stay, use LocTite.

Flat washers are to spread the bolt clamping load evenly, prevent damage to the surface from torquing the bolt, and provide an even surface for the bolt head for torque measurement.
 
  #22  
Old 05-28-2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Old Iron 68X View Post
Tyler-
By the way, I wanted to ask about the T-5. How much are used ones worth, how much did you spend to get it ready, and how does it fit now that you have installed it? I've been thinking about finding one myself.
Iron, thanks for all your expertise on nuts and bolts. That's good stuff. Re the T5...

Let me preface what I am about to say with a disclaimer: Until about 10 months ago I knew next to nothing about cars or trucks. I am a total beginner and figuring this out as I go by asking millions of questions. With that said...

Obviously a used T5 in good working order is worth more than a trashed one. Mine was trashed so I got it for $75 plus another 25 for a Chevy tail housing. I am told working used ones are becoming tough to find and they go for $500-$700. But don't hold me to that. A rebuilt one is about $1200-1300. I over spent on mine for various reasons mostly related to ignorance--nearly $1800 when it was all said and done.

Mine fits well behind my 351W. The guy who redid parts of my frame did an excellent job, so that helped. But I am working on a bare frame right now. I will have to see how things fit when the body goes back on.

If you're considering a T5, google "ultimate T5 swap article" and read and reread the article by flat head ernie. Full of good info.

Hope this helps.

Tyler
 
  #23  
Old 05-28-2012, 11:54 PM
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Tyler, going a little O/T here, but I'm surprised to see your T5 apparently clearing a stock crossmember? That implies that a flathead V8 is set way back compared to your 351? and that your 351 must be sitting pretty high?
 
  #24  
Old 05-29-2012, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
Tyler, going a little O/T here, but I'm surprised to see your T5 apparently clearing a stock crossmember? That implies that a flathead V8 is set way back compared to your 351? and that your 351 must be sitting pretty high?
I wish I had the experience to answer that. I don't have much to compare my 351s position with. The guy who reworked my frame for me did do some work on the crossmember too. But I think I was limited to the mounting bracketry. I'll ask him about it tomorrow an try to get a better answer on that for you. Gotta call him anyway.

T
 
  #25  
Old 05-29-2012, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
Tyler, going a little O/T here, but I'm surprised to see your T5 apparently clearing a stock crossmember? That implies that a flathead V8 is set way back compared to your 351? and that your 351 must be sitting pretty high?
You know, as I think about it, the other thing that may have changed the geometry enough for the T5 to fit the stock cross member is my rear end. Went to an 8" rear end from a 60s Mustang. Also put on new, lower leaf springs in the back, so that may be the difference.

T
 
  #26  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:14 PM
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I lean toward nylock nuts and AN flat washers. Bit more effort in putting them on. Threadlock is good for threaded bosses. Aluminum doesn't like lock washers. I try not to install anything using just a nut and flat washer. Speedway motors sells a nice assortment box of nylock nuts and AN washers. An washers are smaller in overall diameter and hide under the bolt head while protecting the paint.
 
  #27  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:20 PM
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I've always liked the look of a button head or allen head capsrew and a stainless AN washer. Smooth, compact, very tidy.
 
 
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