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  #61  
Old 09-24-2012, 02:20 PM
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That's a pretty bang up deal there. Hopefully they are what your looking for now.
 
  #62  
Old 09-24-2012, 11:03 PM
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Damn.. i was doing a 1.5-2" lift on my 96 also... it looks damn good
 
  #63  
Old 09-25-2012, 02:50 PM
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Got my truck back today!
All new ball joints, u-joints, (cv joints?). Feel like I have to re learn how to drive the truck since Ive been driving a car thats 3 inches of the ground for a week lol
 
  #64  
Old 09-25-2012, 03:03 PM
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cv joints? I've never heard of that since I've owned a bronco.. unless there talking about that ball thingy in the rear drive shaft
 
  #65  
Old 09-25-2012, 03:22 PM
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1 ton you are pretty much correct. The cv balljoint is within the drive lines. You have something called a double cordoned joint which houses the cv joint . If I can remember I will throw some pics up of mine when I replaced it. I can't through my phone yet.

It sounds like the surgery went well.
 
  #66  
Old 09-25-2012, 03:36 PM
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Yup finished product was good. He said it was a nightmare to do though. He did mentioned cv joints, thats why I put a ?, i wasnt to sure.

Everything is all nice and clean and greased up. Including the u-joints have grease fittings, dont know if they always did or if this is new?
 
  #67  
Old 09-25-2012, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NewEnglander View Post
Yup finished product was good. He said it was a nightmare to do though. He did mentioned cv joints, thats why I put a ?, i wasnt to sure.

Everything is all nice and clean and greased up. Including the u-joints have grease fittings, dont know if they always did or if this is new?
This is what it should look like where the drive line meets the T-case.


This is the CV ball joint.


The CV joint goes under the front most u-joint and allows it to have extra movement. It's hard to tell but in this photo you can see it behind the u-joint.


Those holes where the bolts go in are it IIRC. Very vital to a smooth drive line.

They are a nightmare to do, i did mine in my garage with a big hammer and an old spark plug socket. The socket was toast after what i put it through but in the end i won.

EDIT: Oh i forgot, as far as i know the stock u-joints were probably not greasable, but generally aftermarket ones are. Unless you buy the non-greasable ones which would pretty much go by what your own preference is.
 
  #68  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NewEnglander View Post
Got my truck back today!
All new ball joints, u-joints, (cv joints?). Feel like I have to re learn how to drive the truck since Ive been driving a car thats 3 inches of the ground for a week lol
I think he was talking about the outer u-joints on the front axle, I want to do the CV joints on my '76 someday. I'll bet with the right machine shop I could get these to work on my '91 though. The double cardan and CV joints are different critters.
 
  #69  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:39 PM
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I know the cvs on the axle shafts.. i just wasnt sure what he was talking about
 
  #70  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:53 PM
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@ $1200 the CV kit pictured had better be almost bulletproof! Iv'e had to replace a couple of the outer u-joints, not something I'd want to do in a snowdrift, not too difficult. Ball joints are a pain though.
 
  #71  
Old 09-26-2012, 12:59 AM
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The universal joint at the front of the aft drive shaft is not a true CV (Constant Velocity) joint. It is a double-cardon universal joint and it needs the centering ball and spring to keep the two u-joint spiders in phase as the driveshaft rotates and articulates. Since you basically have a two-pice drive shaft (albeit one "piece" is extremely short) the centering ball and spring must be employed or the shaft will bend at the center spider in the opposite direction that it has to because gravity works. When the spring gets tired and the ball socket gets worn, you begin to feel the effects of what it would be like without them in place. It usually manifests as vibration when the drive shaft is under no-load or negative load unless it gets bad enough to let things wobble around all the time.

Every Bronco has one of these at the front end of the aft drive shaft including the 66-77 "early" Broncos. The reason is because the driveshaft needs to articulate further than one universal joint would allow without binding. With the second spider, the shaft can articulate twice as far in theory. However, without the centering spring and ball and without a carrier bearing, the drive shaft would slop around under the truck and rattle itself to pieces in a matter of minutes. If the Bronco aft shaft were a foot longer the double-cardon joint would not be necessary because the distance between the transmission tailhousing and the pinion of the rear axle would be far enough apart that the angle of the drive shaft at full articulation would not exceed the capacity of a single u-joint. Since even the short-bed F-150's didn't need the double cardon u-joint the angles in the Bronco driveline are pretty tight at full articulation.

A true constant velocity joint experiences NO bind at full articulation whereas even a double cardon u-joint assembly will eventually reach a point where it will still function but the bind will cause the shaft to cavitate and the drag will affect performance.

The OEM Bronco has no true CV joints in its driveline anywhere. Even the front axle shaft utilizes standard universal joints at the steering knuckles and at the midpoint in the TTB axle assembly.
 
  #72  
Old 09-26-2012, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by FourXFord2 View Post
The double cardan and CV joints are different critters.
Originally Posted by greystreak92 View Post
The universal joint at the front of the aft drive shaft is not a true CV (Constant Velocity) joint. It is a double-cardon universal joint and it needs the centering ball and spring to keep the two u-joint spiders in phase as the driveshaft rotates and articulates. Since you basically have a two-pice drive shaft (albeit one "piece" is extremely short) the centering ball and spring must be employed or the shaft will bend at the center spider in the opposite direction that it has to because gravity works. When the spring gets tired and the ball socket gets worn, you begin to feel the effects of what it would be like without them in place. It usually manifests as vibration when the drive shaft is under no-load or negative load unless it gets bad enough to let things wobble around all the time.

Every Bronco has one of these at the front end of the aft drive shaft including the 66-77 "early" Broncos. The reason is because the driveshaft needs to articulate further than one universal joint would allow without binding. With the second spider, the shaft can articulate twice as far in theory. However, without the centering spring and ball and without a carrier bearing, the drive shaft would slop around under the truck and rattle itself to pieces in a matter of minutes. If the Bronco aft shaft were a foot longer the double-cardon joint would not be necessary because the distance between the transmission tailhousing and the pinion of the rear axle would be far enough apart that the angle of the drive shaft at full articulation would not exceed the capacity of a single u-joint. Since even the short-bed F-150's didn't need the double cardon u-joint the angles in the Bronco driveline are pretty tight at full articulation.

A true constant velocity joint experiences NO bind at full articulation whereas even a double cardon u-joint assembly will eventually reach a point where it will still function but the bind will cause the shaft to cavitate and the drag will affect performance.

The OEM Bronco has no true CV joints in its driveline anywhere. Even the front axle shaft utilizes standard universal joints at the steering knuckles and at the midpoint in the TTB axle assembly.
I see what you guys mean here, but that is debatable. A double Cardan joint is within the CV joint family. It just isn't fully considered one. I prefer to call that little part in the center of the DC joint a CV joint because i don't really know another name for it. Thats the name i used when i bought it at the parts store and thats the name they had for it in their system... Or we could call it a center ball joint or something. Unless one of you know the true name that is, i wasn't able to find one.
 
  #73  
Old 09-26-2012, 08:15 PM
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As I said the name for it is
Originally Posted by greystreak92 View Post
a double-cardon universal joint.
The centering ball and spring between the two spiders give the assembly the ability to be self-supporting without the need for a carrier bearing. If it wasn't there, the drive shaft would bend the wrong way at the center u-joint. (Try assembling one without the ball and spring to see what I mean).

A true CV joint uses a deep splined ball and socket assembly with ball bearings between the ball and socket. The fact that the ball bearings ride in the spines give the joint its rotary drive capacity. Consequently, there is no bind throughout the CV joint's entire range of motion. No universal joint has this capacity, not even a double-cardon. Ford utilized the double cardon to gain greater range of motion instead of the CV joint for a couple of reasons. The first is serviceability. True CV, joints need to be packed with grease and the boot MUST remain intact lest that grease be slung out of the joint. (Anyone who has ever replaced a CV joint with a bad boot knows what I'm talking about.) And how much fun would it really be to be well off the beaten path in your Bronco and have some errant rock or tree branch scrub the undercarriage in just the worn spot only to tear open a CV joint boot. The other reason for its use I mentioned in my previous post.

Cadillacs and Lincolns use double-cardon u-joints in conjunction with particularly long drivelines to maintain smooth operation and remove the need for carrier bearings on multi-section drive shafts. A CV joint is not necessary in this application as there is no great range of motion required but rather drive shaft stability without the need for a carrier bearing. My wife's '68 DeVille convertible has one at the transmission output yoke and at the pinion yoke which negates the need for a two-piece driveshaft and carrier bearing which would transfer vibration through the frame and into the cabin... a huge no no for a Cadi.

I've seen double-cardons inaccurately referred to as CV joints by parts store guys and mechanics alike just because its less of a mouthful to say. (Most do actually know the difference) Its not a big deal for me. I just felt that some future reader who may not know the difference, might be better off if an explanation was given.
 
  #74  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:39 AM
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Wealth of knowledge. I was mearly pointing out that the Double Cardan is part of the CV family Though i have always referred the double cardan to be the housing that harnesses the 2 u-joints then the CV joint to be that middle bearing part. It seems like it made more sense that way. If i went to Napa and said i need the double cardan, they might think i ment the entire application which would cost a fair bit of money. I like the idea of this design, it seems simplistic yet complicated, i just hate trying to replace the parts... It was a pain getting it together on the floor of my garage.
 
  #75  
Old 09-27-2012, 05:48 PM
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I think it would be an ideal development to find a way to produce a true CV joint that could withstand the same punishment and exposure to the elements that the double-cardon is capable of. Smooth, full range of motion and few worries about eventual backlash between joint components or loss of lubricant from a cracked boot would truly be an accomplishment. Alas, it is merely a pipe-dream. Metallurgically speaking it would most likely cost five times as much as a regular CV joint to produce anyway. Still, I'd like to see it.
 

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