New problem, yeay!

Back ground: 2008, 5.4, 5R110W (Torqueshift) 250SD, Super Cab, short box. 51.000 miles.

Problem:
After coming to a stop I feel the trans do its expected down shift into first. There’s a thunk just before coming to a complete stop, especially under harder braking. When I take off from the stop there’s another thunk. The sensation feels similar to my 92 full sized Blazer that had bad rear spring pins. The shackles would shift upon take off producing a thunk noise and a feel. Or another way to explain it would be say the ring or pinion was missing a tooth. Or the band in the trans isn’t releasing until start up…hard to explain???

If I put my foot on the brake (think brake stand) give it gas to 1500 rpms so the truck climbs up on itself then let off the gas…it comes down from 1500 rpms, plateaus out at 1000 for a second, then when it drops down to idle rpms you feel something releasing with a thud. It does it in all gears 4 & 2 wheel drive and is more noticeable when up to op temp.

I checked the brakes, e-brakes, perches, shackles, u-joints, slip-splines been re-greased, I’ve basically gone through the whole chassis with a pry bar and everything looks intact & tight.

History: I have been fighting a bump slide in the 3-5 up-shift event that I’ve worked almost completely out with Mark Ks help and others. I put an upgraded direct clutch solenoid in from Holderdown performance. The shifts are much harder and firmer. But I hear a tick from the trans when it up-shifts. Almost sounds like the band engagement pin slapping on the band due to slack or an out of adjusted band. (I’m comparing this to the many transmissions I’ve opened up in the past which have a band adj.) this tick happens upon the third up-shift event when up to temp which I believe is from 3rd to 5th. The 3-5 bump slide is still there but slight and only when at full op temp and doesn’t do it all the time. Something is definitely not right in the direct clutch area but I don’t think the above thunk is related to this, but maybe it is? Wide open throttle shifts are ok not stellar but ok. When the trans is colder it’s a good feeling trans. When it’s hot not so much, maybe because when it’s cold it’s in “cold shift pattern mode” and not using 5th? This is supposed to be a bullet proof trans? I’m not at all happy with this one.

I have searched this site & others for 2 days and all I see is info regarding the slip joint splines that need greasing (TSB). I did that a few days ago but I used Mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing grease. I salved it up liberally. It didn’t help. Can Teflon vs. Mobil wheel bearing grease really make a difference…I’d think not. The splines on the slip joint look new. The blue isn’t worn off at all. The two piece shaft exhibited zero radial lash in the slip spline when I had it in the vice. Which to me points to this “bullet proof” trans as the problem?

Anybody else experience this? Any & all advice is welcome. I think it’s time to operate on the trans.

TX
Steve

 

Is your spare tire loose? I have had that cause a thump when stopping or starting.

 

It's probably not a band adjustment since there are no bands at all in the TorqShift transmission.

It probably isn't the cold shift strategy, either, as that only is used below 0°F.

I haven't seen one that thunks on the 3-5 shift. I haven't seen a diesel trans that DOESN'T thunk on the 2-3 shift.

 

Redford tx for the suggestion as sometimes we overlook the obvious simple things and go right to the catastrophic. Sometimes us well seasoned trouble-shooters are guilty of this too...
Mark, so when its say 40-50*F ambient and I start out cold in the AM, Im using the same shift strategy as would be at op temp on a 80*F day? Sure feels different when I first start out in the AM or after all day at work. The shifts are smooth precise and firm, no or very little bump-slide on 3-5. So what changes so much when at op temp? (Other than obvious thinning in viscosity of the fluid and increased electrical resistance in electric devices)?

So the shift pattern normally goes like this: 1-2, 2-3, 3-5, 5 to OD, then converter lockup...right?

The 3 to 5 up shift tick could be something in the chassis being tweaked/rattled/jolted by the enhanced shift. This new solenoid is really quick and applies a greater volume of fluid to the circuit with greater force to the direct apply clutch. Haven’t put it up on a lift and run it yet to see what moves when it shifts.

Any other ideas what would cause this thunk sensation in the trans on stops and take-offs?

TX for your time guys!

 

Driveshaft slip-joint.

 

critterf1. Please read my first post above. I did that but didnt use teflon grease but rather Mobil Synthetic wheel bearing grease. I wouldnt think it would matter???
Zero improvment and I put a good hand full of it in there.

 

The torque converter won't lock until the trans has warmed a few degrees above where it started.

The differences in the electrical devices don't matter for the shifts. The fluid viscosity and the heat in the clutches matter a lot.

1-2, 2-3, 3-5, converter lockup, then 5 to OD.

 

Mark,
Some, advice please. With your help I’m getting a better understanding of the 5R110W transmission and its shift sequence, thank you. For some reason Information is hard to come by.
The “tick” I described in my last email is actually occurring upon 2-3 up shift not 3-5 as I suspected. 2-3 is doing the bump-slide thing like the 3-5 did accompanied with the noise. The noise and bump slide are only prevalent at op temp, not cold.
3-5 up-shift is acceptable now with the new upgraded direct clutch solenoid I installed. In fact the shift is almost too hard. But I d rather have that then soft.
The noise can best be described as similar to one of those spring loaded center pinches you push down on to punch metal, it makes that distinct click.
So what I’m asking you is:
1. What is the sequence of events involved in the 2-3 up shift?
2. Any ideas as to what the hell could be causing the bump shift and the noise?
The tick almost sounds like the solenoid slamming against the valve body. You know the play they have against the C clip.
Most likely my next courses of action is to drop the pan…again, inspect the 2-3 sol and/or replace it.

 

I know exactly what causes the tick on a 2-3 shift. I studied this for several months and made recommendations to fix it.

The tick/clunk is caused by the intermediate one way clutch engaging. There are several degrees of lash in the one way and it makes a thunk as it engages. There is a way to fix it. The gas engine transmissions have a slightly different one way with less lash. It clunks a lot less than the diesel version. Originally there was only one, but for some reason the gas engine trucks were MUCH worse, so a better clutch had to be designed.

The sequence to make the 2-3 shift is the overdrive clutch releases as the intermediate clutch applies. The overdrive has to release within 0.030 seconds of each other. As the intermediate clutch starts to take torque the one way clutch engages, too.

A new solenoid won't change anything.

 

Mark,
It sounds like the fix is hard parts and requires me to drop the trans and open it up, no?
Will it self-destruct if left alone?
Any idea how to locate a 5R110W expert in my area? Rochester NY? How about a reman house? I’m thinking that may be the better way as a reman trans should have the updates and a warranty.
I don’t have the time or the facility to do it myself nor the patience at this point.
TX
Steve

 

Yes, you remove the trans and rebuild it. The one way clutch in your trans clunks, but it isn't a durability concern. We ran a lot of testing and it always passed.

Replacing your trans with a reman probably won't get you the gas engine part. It isn't an updated part, it is a part for a different application. I wouldn't expect that a reman place is going to change it.

I can help you with a place in Florida, but I don't know anyone in NY.

 

Well I have exhausted my search for the thunk. It’s a double clunk upon take off from a stop. Feels like spring perch pins but these are tight. I can feel the trans doing something strange on the down shift upon coming to a stop. Hard and slow stops produce the same feel. Then upon take off you feel a thunk thunk its two. If you jack rabbit start its less prominent. Anyone else have a similar prob and the fix?

 

its your slipjoint, i had mobil1 in mine and it still had a clunk. I bought the proper teflon grease from my local dealer, cleaned out that junk mobil1 and used the Ford stuff and its been a year of silky smooth quietness

 

Fixed it! I can’t believe grease made the difference. Got the 8oz tube specifically for this problem...driveline thunk from Ford. Cleaned off the freshly applied Mobil 1 red grease in the parts cleaner. Dried, inspected splines and gooped the entire 8oz of Teflon grease in the slip-joint. Re-used the Oetiker clamp. 200 miles later and like SuperDutyScaler said "silky smooth quietness". So thanks all!
(yes you can reuse the clamps. To get them apart bend the little tab vertical with a small flat blade and unwrap the clamp. Put the short end in a vice and pull apart or spread open the "Hat" made by the crimp tool slightly & gently using small vice grips. You don’t need much. Upon reinstallation wrap the clamp back around the boot insert the tab you bent and tap it back down with a small ballpeen. Be sure the other 2 or 3 humps ahead of the tab engage in their respective slots. Then recrimp, gently. I have the Oetiker tool so that made the recrimp easy). I couldn’t find the proper size (56mm) clamp in small quantities. Everyone wants to sell you a bag of 100 for $50. Ford wants $50 for their boot kit with 2 new clamps. So I saved a few bucks but more importantly the annoying clunk thunk on starts is gone...hopefully for the life of the truck!

 

droldsmorland, what is the part number for that teflon grease????? My truck has the same clunk and I am hoping this fixes it.