Excellent report Ken and excellent comments & read on the analysis as usual Pete! Ken, just for info - here is the backside of a Scheffer's UOA report so you can seee for yourself what the acceptable wear metal range is and some additional info. The only concern I have when running extended oil change intervals and using Blackstone lab is that Blackstone does not report oil oxidation and nitration like other labs do. Oxidation and nitration levels are a direct reflection of an oils servicability.

 

P.S. Almost forgot - Silicon is very low, your air filter system is doing an excellent job. Anything under 20 ppm is good, in the single digits for 7K is excellent.

 

OK, guys... just got the word back from a world-class lubrication expert who is also the chief chemist for Schaeffer Manufacturing (the source of the chart I used).

Essentially, the charts are rough go-by documents, and when they are created by different companies, the conversion of fonts and graphic blocks indicating where the viscosity values run can end up with a decent degree of variability. That being said, the chemist said explicitly to "always go by the SJ-300 document values".

So, I stand corrected on my original posted values for viscosity range, and rufushusky is absolutely correct with the values he posted. Also, just in case someone reads this later and/or quotes either of my two earlier posts, I've gone back up to those previous two posts and inserted a comment to refer to my comments here.

 

That brings up an interesting point, and since you have several of the oil gurus involved in this thread, I'm interested to see what they have to say.

The bypass system catches more black stuff so the oil still looks amber after many miles. There's a visual difference in the oil between bypass and no bypass. What makes up all the black stuff that the bypass is catching? Any why is the visual difference not as apparent when looking at UOA?

Is it just catching large micron soot that doesn't have any effect on wear? If we can see the difference in our eyes, why can't we see the difference on paper?

 

Well Chris - here is my experience:

I've had the Oilguard Bypass system on for 6+ years and about 120K miles or so. I've never been one that has had the honey colored or transparant oil after 1,500 or 2,000 miles on it. Mine is ussually black no matter what I do. Even if I change out the oil in the HPOP reservior. Black, black, black for my F-250 - just the way it's been 4 me.

But the bypass filter will clean down to @ the 2 micron level compared to the 20 micron level of a full flow wix/napa 51734 filter or the 10 micron level of the wix napa 51734XE full flow filter.

51734 Filter details

51734XE Filter details

So basically you are cleaning the 2-20 micron sized contaminates out of the oil with a bypass system.

You ask - why doesn't it show up any different on paper (a UAO report)?

Depends on the report (LOL!) A basic $20 oil analysis from blackstone or anyone else will only use a spectrometer that detects particles in the 5-8 micron range. There are more expensive options but most of them are not cost effective at this level.Plus keep in mind that the numbers on a UOA report are not absolute values. You can run the same sample through the spectrometer twice and a get + or - 3 point variation. Most labs will run a sample twice if they catch anything that is out of normal or a contaminant before sending the sample out for further scrutiny.

Savy?

 

Rich, yes I sabe the color change being due to the larger micron particle sizes being captured. What I don't understand is, why are these larger particles not doing any damage that would show up in terms of iron wear or something?

What damage are these large particles doing if they are not bypass oil filtered out? If a bypass set up causes less engine wear, shouldn't that show up in the other numbers somewhere?

Perhaps it does and it's making the wear the same at 10 miles as it would be at 5k miles without a bypass. That would explain why the bypass results seem consistent with the no bypass results I've seen posted, but it's only speculation on my part.

You've had a lot more oil edumacation than I have.

 

According to the folks at the lab I use, an oil bypass filtration system doesn't directly cause less engine wear because it's basically filtering out insolubles (or what some labs label as "soot %"). However, less 'sooty' oil is thought to have higher lubricating properties so a bypass filtration system should allow for extended oil change intervals (since the performance of the oil reduces at a slower rate).

At least that's the way it was explained to me.

 

I've heard the same thing Greg. I'm just naturally not the trusting type. I see sales folks saying things like less sooty oil is thought to be better, look you can see it for yourself.....

and then I see UOA reports from several different labs, both with and without a bypass set up. It just seems like all these different labs, or at least one of them, would be able to pick up on solid proof that it was better.

I don't run a bypass, and my UOA results have been amazingly boring over the last 300,000 miles or so (just posted my 400k UOA in another thread). Why am I not seeing more wear?

 

I am right there with you....almost 300k on my truck and the oil reports are equally boring. My lab said that I would likely see no benefit by adding a bypass system to my truck since I change my oil every 6-8k anyway...so I am essentially throwing out perfectly good oil every time. They only recommend extra filtration for engines that have very high duty cycles, such as 150-200 hours/month. Diesel generators with bypass could get by with oil samples every 200 hrs and changed out every 400 hrs or perhaps even longer depending on the lab report.

They even went so far as to suppose that bypass filtration could possibly interfere with the PQ Index reading and potentially miss the early stages of component failure. I found that statement to be a bit of a stretch and taken with a grain of salt (so to speak...). I must remember that I am talking to people who make revenue from folks who sample on a regular basis.

 

It is all very interesting. I have always figured I was throwing money away on oil changes at 3k. I guess I figured the oil would last longer with a by-pass filter installed. Maybe these things just naturally keep the oil in good shape (when properly maintained). I am happy I installed my by-pass kit and would do it again since it was just a little more than an oil change and really a fun little project.

Here is a little more information to ponder on.......

My commuter car is a 1995 BMW 525i. Has the M50 VANOS (2.5L) engine in it, current mileage is 179,000. I drive about 45 miles each way and rack up roughly 1700 miles a month working weekends too. I have been getting analysis on it too. I have always used Mobil1 5W-30. I realize this is apples to oranges when comparing to a diesel, but I figured it may spark up some conversations. No by-pass oil system on this car, just the standard paper element that BMW uses.

 

Well, let me try to explain my comments better. Sorry - after my back surgery on Friday I have been on some meds that have made my head very cloudy and I feel more loopy than normal - whatever normal is - LOL. Heck - I think I drooled on my laptop.....or was that from Robbragiel's avatar????

What I was saying was that in my F-250 - my oil turns black/dark quickly. So a bypass system does not seem to have made a change in the oil's color or transparancy in my F-250.


Actually the larger particles are not the ones that cause most of the engine wear. It's the smaller 1-10 micron sized particles called Clearance Sized Particles (CSP). For example, the clearance between a piston & cylinder wall an an engine is 3-4 microns, so the larger particles wont be able to wedge in between the two parts to cause and wear. But the smaller micron particles that can get in there will.


Yep, and similiar to what shake-n-bake posted. The bypass sytem is basically there to clean the oil better than the standard full flow system alone and allow for the engine oil to be used longer. Keep in mind that it is best to do this in conjunction with a UOA to build up some historical values for the vehicle and ensure the additives, oxidation & nitration levels are within limits.

You can add a bypass sytem to extend the oil change intervals or change the oil more frequently to keep removing the contaminated particles. 8-10K with a bypass compared to a 4-5K without.

Sorry if I confused anyone with my previous post

 

Now that's some good info. Thanks.

 

Probably ought to check this.

Jus' sayin'....

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I don't mind being called out on the carpet Pop - you know me, if I posted something wrong please feel free to correct me. I'm.not concerned about being right all the time, Just passing on what I have learned from thr Army and Schaeffer's. It's more important to get the correct info out. I'm good with it.

 

Piston clearance is measured in thousandths of an inch, not microns.

There's a big, big difference.

The figure you stated would cause an engine to seize, as it is entirely too small.

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