I'm mostly just going to complain but I think it would benefit us all for people to be smarter about oil.

My favorite local auto parts store just gave up stocking one of my favorite oils to make room for gosh darn royal blurple. I use 0W30 Mobil1 in several of the vehicles I maintain and have been getting a good deal there. Now they don't stock it and the only reason I can imagine is that they have to stock what sells and people keep buying the wrong stuff. Royal blurple now has as much shelf space as Mobil1.

Then looking at what Mobil1 they do stock they have a single row of most but two rows of 10W30. The only reason to even make a 10W30 synthetic is cause morons buy it. Let alone the decision to stock it over 0W30. I'm just looking at the isle wishing people where smarter about oil so they would stop buying 10W30 synthetic and royal blurple so the stores would stop stocking the stuff and carry products that are better.

An intelligent buying public helps us all cause it makes the better product successful, cheaper, and more common. How do we make that happen?

 

Tell them about it.

Put M1 0w30 in my truck back in Oct and glad I did. This winter has been the coldest in long time with record lows and the 0w helped noticeably with cold startup vs 5w30 synth I was using. Walmart had the M1 in 0W30 so that is what I bought if they would have had Pennzoil Platinum in Ow30 I would have bought that.

I will spend more money on more expensive oils/atfs for longer service applications.(transfer case, gear oil) But not for motor oil that gets changed regularly.

 

All folks have to do to learn about what oil is for their ride, is refer to that great unread document called "Owners Manual"!!!! lol

Edit: But, because few folks even open their owner manual, much less actually read it, if you think its bad now, wait until GF-6 lubes are out. In GF-6 there will be two categories of gas engine oil, one for older engines that will be backward compatable like in the past, another recipe for newer engines & the oil for newer engines Won't be backward compatable with older engines & will likely cause damage if used, so couple that with the fact most owners never open, read, or refer to their manuals to find out what engine lube they're to use, we can see there will likely be an increase of engine damage or failure in the future of a lot of folks!!!!

 

I'm glad I drive old junk. I use 10-40 dino in everything & have for years. Unless the manufacture calls for synthetic oils I think its a waste of money.
I,ve driven vehicles to 300,000 miles on dino oil & have a friend that drove a 6.9 diesel to 700,000 miles on dino oil. How much better can you get. Most people don't own a vehicle long enough to even come close to those miles before they sell or trade them.

 

I do the same, I typically use Red Line ATFs and gear oils. If I had to pay the $9.19/qt retail for M1 I likely wouldn't. But I keep an eye out, these big chain stores put it on sale rather often. $30 for 5qts and a filter, so when it goes on sale like that I buy at A LOT.

FWIW I got no issue with Wall-Mart, ya know all the pinkos complaining. I love that the pinkos hate Wall-Mart. I just hate going there and fighting the crowds of morons.

 

Even if they read it the info is very incomplete if not flat out wrong.

I'll have to read up on the GF-6.

Things brings up another thing I don't get. I've yet to see a 0W20 on a typical store shelf, but it makes perfect since there is no reason for a 5W when the hot is a 20. Really the SAE/API needs to replace this system in favor of using kinematic viscosity numbers. I keep saying 0W is better but it doesn't actually mean anything except it's under the 5W standard. Kinematic viscosity numbers would make it so much more clear why we need a new system and more less then 5W oils. Kinematic viscosity numbers would read more like 50W10 for what we now see as a 5W30.

 

You put 10W40 dino in all the vehicles in your sig?

 

I see it every day. In fact every Wal-Mart I've been to stocks 0w20 in Mobil1, Pennzoil Ultra, and Quaker State full synth. Which is nice because my wife's van requires 0w20.

You'd be sowing some serious confusion if you did that. There would have to be some rounding involved or nobody would know how to match up the right specs, and then it'd be as inaccurate as the current system. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

Hmmm maybe I will have to start trekking to Wall-Mart.

But it is broke, people look at 0W and think water. The simple truth is that the current system does not work with modern oils. Confusion yes, we need a little confusion, when people are confused they look for answers and learn.

 

If you think motor oil can get confusing you should get into some of the industrial stuff. The machine manuals have oils in nobody really uses and stocks. Then you have to cross reference it to something else. Then there are many manufacturers and companies whom have their own names and designations.

Most recently a machine I bought that did not come with a manual that states what oil to use. So after I paid $160 for a pdf copy of the manual and saw what oil they spec I get to cross reference it to an oil my suppliers actually stock. And pay $125 for 4 gallons of a straight weight dino oil.


I am not a really big fan of wal-mart or anything but I buy my motor oil and filters there for the most part. Just make sure to open the box and check the filter before you buy it.

I ran 10w30 synthetic for years in my 74' 302 and it still has it in now. It just worked well and the truck was ran all year around.

 

Could you please elaborate on this? And provide explicit references backing up your claims?

 

I'm not going to write a research essay on it. But I'll point you towards Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy to begin with.

The most simple explanation is that the only reason for anything other then a 0WXX is the limitations of the oil itself in making it that temperature and viscosity stable and last between changes. Those limitations though largely only apply to mineral(dino) oil. Quality synthetics don't have those limitations so there is no technical reason to ever use let alone make a 10W30 synthetic.

 

i don't think it works that way for everyone at all. For guys like you and me, sure, but for my wife and my sister-in-law? no way!

my SIL wanted me to do an oil change and asked me what to get and where to get it. if it weren't for me, she would have just gone to walmart and asked the guy stocking the shelf what to buy.

Changing the system will put people like this in the hands of people who work in automotive simply because they are strong enough to pick up cases of oil and car batteries -- not because they know or care anything about cars. Trust me, i've worked retail. you get a lot of "what should i use" questions, and changing the system as you suggest is going to lead to a lot of people getting a lot of bad advice.

"that's what they guy said to buy ... i dunno .."

i think there is a greater number of people in the "dont know-dont care" category than any other, IMO anyway.

why i'm reading this at 3am ... i have no idea.

the link is good, but i'm not sure that the information in the link is really pertinent to you complaint.

The best i can tell, and the essays i read seem to stay consistent with this assumption, is that BITOG generally contends that any mineral based oil is NOT synthetic - including group 3 oils.

Your complaint *would* apply to the mobil 1, as it is a PAO, and as such would be considered a synthetic by Bob. I guess what i'm saying is, that there ARE advantages to a synthetic 10w30 vs conventional 10w30 in other brands because they are a group 3 as opposed to a PAO or ester based oil.

A synthetic 10w30 castrol will out-perform a conventional 10w30 at high temps because the additives will not break down as much in the synthetic (group 3). But you will not gain the additional low temp performance that the 10w30 Mobil 1 has to offer, as the 10w30 Mobil 1 actually performs much better than the 10w designation on the bottle. remembering that mineral based oils (including group 3 synthetics) start as a 10w and get modified to perform as a 30w when hot, and a synthetic (PAO's and esters) oils start as a 30w and get modified to perform as a 10w)

When retail stores make changes and sell new product, the current sales products go under review to see what sells and what doesn't. in this case, 10w30 clearly out sells 0w30, so with a finite amount of room, one has to go. The thing about retail is that you have to sell what people *want* not what they *need*. if you get into the business of telling the masses what they need and ignore what they want, they will go somewhere else.

now you have to go somewhere else, which stinks for you, but they keep 99% of their customers, while only losing a few, and hopefully gaining more by expanding their product line - and that's all they care about.

all of that being said, and as much as i hate shopping there -- walmart sells your 0w30, and if you can find the 5qt bottles, the price is untouchable. I was actually going to buy some for the first time ever this year, but the $7+/qt price on the qt bottles kept me from buying it. I needed 7qts of 0w20 and 6qts of 0w30, and needing those additional 3 qts just put me over budget. settled for NAPA synthetic instead.

sorry for the diatribe

 

Interesting sleep-deprived diatribe Mike.

I'm nearly positive that most Mobil1 is not PAO, but another really good Group III oil. There are rumors that Mobil1 EP is PAO, but that's impossible to confirm because ExxonMobil doesn't release that kind of information last time I looked around for it.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it has to do with PAO vs dino-synthetic oils. You'll never find Group I or II 0w30 oil, but it's commonly available with "Full Synthetics" made from Group III base stocks that come from petroleum. For me it's all about the results and not about the product. The Group III synthetics do extremely well on all counts when comparing low temperature viscosities, and that's my number one reason for buying them.

There really aren't any bad oil choices anymore. Anything that's API SN certified will do an outstanding job of keeping things clean and lubricated provided the right weight is used. My Town Car uses cheap Super Tech 5w20 dino and it likes it just fine.

 

could be... last i knew it was still a group 4, but they may have subcomed to market pressures and started using group 3's. IDK I haven't done a ton of research on Mobil 1 here lately.


we agree on this, tom.

My only real point was that when I read the tutorials on BITOG, I got the distinct impression that when he says "synthetic" he is referring to group 4 oils only, and any group 3 oil he is referring to as conventional.

so all the benefits he is attributing to the synthetic oils, as i read it, would apply only to the group 4's and should not be attributed to the group 3's labeled as synthetic (every synthetic on the market, currently except Amsoil and possibly Mobil 1 -- and even Amsoil now is producing group 3 synthetic to compete in the market). The author also makes note of the "european formula" oils on the market. AFAIK, in order to be called a "synthetic" in germany, it needs to be a group 4, so your castrol edge european formula is very likely a PAO.

Personally, i don't get hung up on semantics. i have no problem considering a group 3 oil as a synthetic. as you said above, the performance of the group 3's is outstanding. In the past, when i was driving over 160 miles/day to work and back i would use Castrol Syntec (group 3 synthetic) and just change oil every 3 months. that usually ended up between 10k-12k for the OCI. I never worried about it. the car never used any oil between oil changes (except the two times i tried Mobil 1), and the engine lived a long healthy life after 2 years of that treatment. The group 3 synthetics are truly a good oil.

agreed 100% (brand bias aside)

isn't that super tech some surprising stuff!??!? I put 5 quarts of that stuff in my plow truck over 18 months ago and have yet to add any oil, despite extended idle time (winter and summer), low speed crawling through the pasture as a spray/fertilizer rig for hours on end (10 straight hours IIRC), and plowing snow for a couple hours at a time. I was going to change it at 12 months, but when i pulled the dipstick, it looked as clean as the new oil in the jug, so i just left it alone. My plan is to do an oil analysis on it here in the spring or summer and see what the report says. Might be able to justify a 2 year OCI on that truck, which would be fine with me!