HEAD JOB! will be pic heavy!!!!!!!!!!!
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03-21-2012, 07:06 PM
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HEAD JOB! will be pic heavy!!!!!!!!!!!
okay boys and girls ive decieded that since its gonna be a while till i get more money and i can actually pay for the fuel to run my truck that im going to do a head gasket job on it. got a few questions to ask before i go ***** deep into this
1. when removing heads what all should i pull
2. would it be better to pull entire motor and work on it on the floor?
3. what should i look for as far as pulling heads off?
4. what else should i rebuild or repair as or when the heads are off?
5. If i pull the motor and stick it on a stand and while its out should i just rebuild the entire motor.
6. what all should i really do to it as far as any of this goes?
Any and all comments will be considered and any help what so ever will be nice also. first time pulling the heads off these and i just want to get some advice before heading in. will try to remeber any and all photos if i do them or such anything else. The reasoning behind me wanting to redo heads is that it makes a funny ticking noise and i can not isolate it. but once warm it goes away. but at the same time in just the small things that i have done i have noticed some huge things wrong with this motor! the moron who owned the truck before me must have replaced or redone some things on the motor because the more and more i look around the more and more rtv i see on everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!! so i know for a fact that i want to replace things and seals. so once again i ask for any advice and or help.
Mikey
1. when removing heads what all should i pull
2. would it be better to pull entire motor and work on it on the floor?
3. what should i look for as far as pulling heads off?
4. what else should i rebuild or repair as or when the heads are off?
5. If i pull the motor and stick it on a stand and while its out should i just rebuild the entire motor.
6. what all should i really do to it as far as any of this goes?
Any and all comments will be considered and any help what so ever will be nice also. first time pulling the heads off these and i just want to get some advice before heading in. will try to remeber any and all photos if i do them or such anything else. The reasoning behind me wanting to redo heads is that it makes a funny ticking noise and i can not isolate it. but once warm it goes away. but at the same time in just the small things that i have done i have noticed some huge things wrong with this motor! the moron who owned the truck before me must have replaced or redone some things on the motor because the more and more i look around the more and more rtv i see on everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!! so i know for a fact that i want to replace things and seals. so once again i ask for any advice and or help.
Mikey
Last edited by Mikey Oldaker; 03-21-2012 at 07:07 PM. Reason: cause i can
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03-22-2012, 12:10 AM
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03-22-2012, 12:14 AM
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#8
03-22-2012, 08:59 AM
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ha ha ha ha sorry to dissapoint you all but i havent started on it yet i figured i should get some money before i get into it but i have decided that im going to to do afull gasket job on it just becasue of the oil pan having so much rtv on it idk what the guy was thinking when he had done it
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03-24-2012, 12:36 AM
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1) Do you have a shop manual? The Haynes isn't bad, ford shop manual is better. Chilton's is crap. That should cover what all to pull. Basically, alternator, PS pump, AC compressor, vacuum pump; injection pump, injectors, glow plugs, fuel filter, mount plate and lines; intake manifold; valve covers and rockers; exhaust piping. Exhaust manifolds can be left attached to the heads. Valley pan. Pushrods. Then headbolts.
2) Depends. It's harder in the truck, but not that much. Not sure if it balances out the extra work in pulling the motor. On the other hand, you've got much better access and can get other stuff done with it out, ie crank seals, rings & bearings, etc.
2a) If you do it in the truck, several of the rear headbolts can't be pulled out due to the brake booster and AC housing. Pull them up about 3" and put some tape or something on to hold them up while you pull the heads off. **Make sure you remember which ones and to put them back into the heads before you put the heads on.**
3) Don't drop them on your foot. :-P The heads on these are *HEAVY*, something like 100# each. Pulling them off and putting them on the engine is a chore. Be careful and don't hurt yourself, especially cause you're lifting at a weird angle. I usually sit on the radiator and lift them off that way. Some will use an engine hoist to lift them on/off.
4) Take the heads to a machine shop and have valves done, magnaflux and check for straightness. There's varying opinions on the wisdom of resurfacing these heads if they are warped. I've done mine and it seems to have not affected anything.
Do the oil cooler O-rings, it's easy to get to when the head is off. Change the exhaust manifold gaskets. Would be a good time for a injection pump & injector rebuild and new glow plugs if you have the cash / think it's needed.
Put in ARP head studs, especially if you have or might get a turbo. The stock bolts are pretty wimpy. They work, but once you see the bolts and studs next to each other you'll feel much better driving it. Technically the stock bolts should be replaced for a head job although you can reuse them if they're in good shape and you're willing to take the chance.
Check the lifters and rocker arms. If you have the older style aluminum bridge style rockers I'd recommend replacing them. I've had 2 engines that had problems from these, one resulting in a dropped valve and engine rebuild.
5) If the motor's out it's pretty easy to do bearings. Not sure I'd do rings unless you think it's needed, but bearings are easy and not too expensive and sound insurance. If you do rings then you have to draw the line somewhere cause real quick you'll wind up getting into boring and replacing pistons.
Be careful putting it on a stand, a full dressed diesel weights ~1200# and if you try to put it on a typical engine stand it'll wind up on the floor real quick. Be careful trying to get it out too. I would trust a typical engine hoist with one of these, especially not with as high as you have to get it to clear the radiator. I've used a forklift all the times I've pulled engines.
6) Honestly, I wouldn't mess with it. Is there a reason you need to do gaskets? Unless you know it's broke, don't mess with it. Especially if you're short of money. You're looking at $150 in gaskets, (head set+valley pan) ~3-400 in machine work, ~250 for studs, 1-200 for hoses, thermostat, glow plugs, oil cooler o-rings, etc, and that's if you don't do anything else. Minimum would probably be ~200-250, and you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot doing the job halfway.
2) Depends. It's harder in the truck, but not that much. Not sure if it balances out the extra work in pulling the motor. On the other hand, you've got much better access and can get other stuff done with it out, ie crank seals, rings & bearings, etc.
2a) If you do it in the truck, several of the rear headbolts can't be pulled out due to the brake booster and AC housing. Pull them up about 3" and put some tape or something on to hold them up while you pull the heads off. **Make sure you remember which ones and to put them back into the heads before you put the heads on.**
3) Don't drop them on your foot. :-P The heads on these are *HEAVY*, something like 100# each. Pulling them off and putting them on the engine is a chore. Be careful and don't hurt yourself, especially cause you're lifting at a weird angle. I usually sit on the radiator and lift them off that way. Some will use an engine hoist to lift them on/off.
4) Take the heads to a machine shop and have valves done, magnaflux and check for straightness. There's varying opinions on the wisdom of resurfacing these heads if they are warped. I've done mine and it seems to have not affected anything.
Do the oil cooler O-rings, it's easy to get to when the head is off. Change the exhaust manifold gaskets. Would be a good time for a injection pump & injector rebuild and new glow plugs if you have the cash / think it's needed.
Put in ARP head studs, especially if you have or might get a turbo. The stock bolts are pretty wimpy. They work, but once you see the bolts and studs next to each other you'll feel much better driving it. Technically the stock bolts should be replaced for a head job although you can reuse them if they're in good shape and you're willing to take the chance.
Check the lifters and rocker arms. If you have the older style aluminum bridge style rockers I'd recommend replacing them. I've had 2 engines that had problems from these, one resulting in a dropped valve and engine rebuild.
5) If the motor's out it's pretty easy to do bearings. Not sure I'd do rings unless you think it's needed, but bearings are easy and not too expensive and sound insurance. If you do rings then you have to draw the line somewhere cause real quick you'll wind up getting into boring and replacing pistons.
Be careful putting it on a stand, a full dressed diesel weights ~1200# and if you try to put it on a typical engine stand it'll wind up on the floor real quick. Be careful trying to get it out too. I would trust a typical engine hoist with one of these, especially not with as high as you have to get it to clear the radiator. I've used a forklift all the times I've pulled engines.
6) Honestly, I wouldn't mess with it. Is there a reason you need to do gaskets? Unless you know it's broke, don't mess with it. Especially if you're short of money. You're looking at $150 in gaskets, (head set+valley pan) ~3-400 in machine work, ~250 for studs, 1-200 for hoses, thermostat, glow plugs, oil cooler o-rings, etc, and that's if you don't do anything else. Minimum would probably be ~200-250, and you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot doing the job halfway.
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03-24-2012, 11:47 AM
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well there is a reason behind it. a while ago i had bought some stupid *** autolight gp and then they quit working so i was resorted to starting fluid ( again no money at the time to get better or new gp) then when i did get money i replaced them and been working great just not the controler. when i had pulled out them pile of crap autolights they were all warped and deformed and four of them were missing half the gp or more so i figured while im down i can get her tore apart before it gets too worse. so when i got my return line i done the injectors my self and got them back to where they needed to be i need to buy new ones and i should probably buy a new ip and also im more or less doing it becuase im sick of looking at my motor and seeing rtv everywhere i also have some pictures of where im at but havent uploaded them yet
Also idc bout the money im going to have to spend i have another vehicle to transport me for work and what not but recently i had heard a ticking in the motor and i know for a fact that its not the injectors but dont know what it is, and also in the last couple of times of running it, it had been acting very weird. something i have never heard of these things doing. it was really slugish at first take off and then bout 2200-2500 rpm it would just take off. almost like it had a turbo on it. then if it were idiling and i give her some throttle it would take off and sound normal but when i let off it would drop and almost sound like some of my injectors would stop and the motor would almost sound like it was going to die then pick back up.
Also idc bout the money im going to have to spend i have another vehicle to transport me for work and what not but recently i had heard a ticking in the motor and i know for a fact that its not the injectors but dont know what it is, and also in the last couple of times of running it, it had been acting very weird. something i have never heard of these things doing. it was really slugish at first take off and then bout 2200-2500 rpm it would just take off. almost like it had a turbo on it. then if it were idiling and i give her some throttle it would take off and sound normal but when i let off it would drop and almost sound like some of my injectors would stop and the motor would almost sound like it was going to die then pick back up.
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03-24-2012, 01:33 PM
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well i will just go in chronilogical order of pictures taken so far and btw you were right these heads are not light!
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332547251106.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332547251106.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
from the start
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332547266038.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332547266038.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332552702030.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332552702030.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332552709416.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332552709416.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611387728.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611387728.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611397125.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611397125.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611401374.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611401374.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611412324.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611412324.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332612231476.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332612231476.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
piston top on #3 cyl is scared very badly even has dents in it from what looks like a screw driver
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332612239334.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332612239334.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
piston top #1 scared very badly even has dents in it from what looks like a screw driver
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332547251106.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332547251106.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
from the start
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332547266038.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332547266038.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332552702030.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332552702030.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332552709416.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332552709416.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611387728.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611387728.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611397125.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611397125.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611401374.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611401374.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332611412324.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332611412324.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332612231476.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332612231476.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
piston top on #3 cyl is scared very badly even has dents in it from what looks like a screw driver
<a href="http://s1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/?action=view&current=1332612239334.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff379/SparkyMcGee2/1332612239334.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
piston top #1 scared very badly even has dents in it from what looks like a screw driver
#12
03-24-2012, 07:32 PM
Wow, way to go man, lots of work.
Sorry to hear about those autolites...
Which BTW are probably what's responsible for your piston #1 and #4 scoring!?
As for this:
I am pretty certain that you had air intrusion. That sounds just like it, my truck does it on occasion(weather depending), and when you run low on fuel, suck up a bunch of air and for some reason it runs like a champ for about 2 miles, lol, then you're all done. 
That's most likely for short trips. Longer trips it should even out and drive normal if you're not out of fuel. I have a pre-filter before my e-pump that I left on too long... and the pumps(both lift and e-pump) would suck so hard at that filter that they would bring in air from seals that normally worked fine. Changed the filter, good to go.
Maybe it has something to do with your recent injector change. Any little thing goes wrong on those darn return lines and all the fuel drains back to the tank and you get air in the IP.
Anywho, hope this helps and git-r-done on your head work!
Sorry to hear about those autolites...
Which BTW are probably what's responsible for your piston #1 and #4 scoring!?
As for this:
also in the last couple of times of running it, it had been acting very weird. something i have never heard of these things doing. it was really slugish at first take off and then bout 2200-2500 rpm it would just take off. almost like it had a turbo on it. then if it were idiling and i give her some throttle it would take off and sound normal but when i let off it would drop and almost sound like some of my injectors would stop and the motor would almost sound like it was going to die then pick back up.
That's most likely for short trips. Longer trips it should even out and drive normal if you're not out of fuel. I have a pre-filter before my e-pump that I left on too long... and the pumps(both lift and e-pump) would suck so hard at that filter that they would bring in air from seals that normally worked fine. Changed the filter, good to go.
Maybe it has something to do with your recent injector change. Any little thing goes wrong on those darn return lines and all the fuel drains back to the tank and you get air in the IP.
Anywho, hope this helps and git-r-done on your head work!
#14
03-25-2012, 02:03 AM
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hell yea ill take em if you dont want them lol i just dont have any money lol. but um will they work for a 6.9 , also does any one know where the hell the motors serial number is so i can figure out what my bore size is and another question, i know these motors are famous for the being the idi but what if and or has anyone done a rebuild and left those out and made it an indirect injection non indirect injection idk how to explain it but i guess just makin it so when it sprays it just goes strait to the cylinder instead of the idi portion so i suppuse that the actual explosion will happen in the entire cylinder instead of the head?
any ways like i said its gonna be a while before i get much done becuase as i was removing material from the heads i realized they are in fairly good shape imma take them to a machine shop and see what the smallest amount is i can get machined off and have them do that just so its a clean and good surface, but as far as the rest imma get a new set of pistons and rods and what not and also a new cam. dont really think anything is wrong with it but if imma go with some different pistons then i might as well do the cam while im at it
and as far as those whom are wondering, the extra work you would have to do to pull the motor is 8,0000% worth doing it because when whats his face told me them heads were heavy he wasnt lying about it and on top of that with out being able to remove them head bolts it makes a bigger pain in the *** also more pictures on the way
btw after further inspection of the cylinders them selves i need the job because they seem to be in bad shape not only are the scarred badly but it seems to be cracks in them and when im able too i will post pictures of what i mean if i am able to take that good of pictures
any ways like i said its gonna be a while before i get much done becuase as i was removing material from the heads i realized they are in fairly good shape imma take them to a machine shop and see what the smallest amount is i can get machined off and have them do that just so its a clean and good surface, but as far as the rest imma get a new set of pistons and rods and what not and also a new cam. dont really think anything is wrong with it but if imma go with some different pistons then i might as well do the cam while im at it
and as far as those whom are wondering, the extra work you would have to do to pull the motor is 8,0000% worth doing it because when whats his face told me them heads were heavy he wasnt lying about it and on top of that with out being able to remove them head bolts it makes a bigger pain in the *** also more pictures on the way
btw after further inspection of the cylinders them selves i need the job because they seem to be in bad shape not only are the scarred badly but it seems to be cracks in them and when im able too i will post pictures of what i mean if i am able to take that good of pictures
#15
04-02-2012, 10:21 AM
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PM me with your address. I will get the rockers sent out. You can have your block magnafluxed to find out if it is cracked, Don't know what it would cost though. Is it cracked around block heater or in cylinder wall. I have read early 6.9s cracked around there. Haven't heard of other problems though. I have a spare rebuilt 83 head, but it I beleive it will only fit 83 What are the casting numbers on your heads if you need 1. If you have a cylinder cracked you can have just that cylinder sleeved, price I got earlier this year was $65 a cylinder. If you need pistons check E-bay, I got real lucky and found a set for $140 most are more. Pistons at NAPA are $85 each.