2011-12 EcoBoost 6spd into Slick! "Project Eco~Slick" - Page 4 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums



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2011-12 EcoBoost 6spd into Slick! "Project Eco~Slick"

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  #46  
Old 04-07-2012, 09:30 AM
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I need it but getting it here might be the problem....
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  #47  
Old 04-07-2012, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Boss9F100 View Post
Thanks for the offer Wyatt! I will take you up on that if I run into a snag.

A lot to learn in this swap right now but am very excited, especially after doing a quick will it fit when I dropped the cab in place.

A couple things I may need help with so far is this truck came with a 3.15 gear set. I need a complete axle but the only one found close so far is the 3.31. How would I recalibrate for the speed difference?

Also how can I bypass the side air bags? I would like to have at least the steering wheel and pass side airbags working. When it got hit from behind the side airbags deployed but not the seat or dash/steering wheel bags. If I just have to eliminate them that would be ok too.

The shop manuals that just showed today should be a big help. OASIS avail would be nice! I am sure I will run into plenty of issues along the way as I get more into it.

Have you pulled a cab yet on a new 150? those bolts with no access to nuts was miserable as they all spun up top with no way to get to them. I am sure it was from getting hit in rear and the cab moved but cannot imagine trying that with a few years and miles into it. Other wise its only a couple hour job or less to remove the cab.
Yes the ford cage nuts tend to do that and warranty pays almost nothing to replace them if they are serviceable. I've run into that on the 08-10 power strokes. I havent needed to pull a cab on a f150 before but on the power strokes there is a large grommet in the floor under the carpet you can remove to access the top of the nut. The ford approved method of removal is to use a magnetic contact heater (or torch, not approved) to heat the bolt to magic color (a little orange) to melt the locktite for removal and use slow hits from an impact gun with gradually more power on the trigger. sometimes it comes out like butter, most times not.

As for the airbag system if you eliminate the blown side air bags and other inputs to the restraint control module and only leave the two driver and passenger air bags there could be issues. you need crash sensors, yaw pitch rate sensors (cluster sensor) and without one they wont work right. I doubt you would be able to install f150 side air bags that would work safely in 66 cab door. I would eliminate the entire air bag system on one condition. It all depends on your instrument cluster. if you have an lcd screen information center then your screwed there is no way to program out the warning messages that will show up and cover the screen if the air bag system is non existent. on the up side if you have the conventional message center with bulbs for warning lights you can roll with that because you can remove that bulb. other modules will set codes and be upset that there is no restraint control module but it will not limit engine power at all because of it. removing the air bag system should only effect that system. (it wont effect any other system, trailer sway, traction control, blah, blah). Also there is no way to go from a lcd screen instrument cluster to a conventional one. all the other modules will be programmed to work with an lcd screen cluster and cant be programmed to change this. and you cant replace all modules in the vehicle to change the cluster unless you get all the same equipped modules on another truck without attempting to program. also the harnesses will be different. (this way the truck with think its a different truck by vin) bad news is with that it wont pass deq because they vin in the modules wont match your registration. and even if one module has the wrong vin then the pcm it wont start.

Im thinking the lively hood of this build depends on that.

The steering wheel should be fine but you will have to make sure you keep the steering wheel angle sensor for trailer sway to continue working among other sensors for it to continue working.

the way you change your gear ratio is by entering the pcm with the dealership scan tool and going to "module programming" then to Programmable Perimeters" to change it. Some vehicle don't have the option to do this, some do. some vehicles have the option to do this but don't have the axle ratio available in the scroll down list to choose from for the right rear end. Id see what the pcm has available for axle ratios before you choose one. may be kinda had to check that now because the truck is in pieces. lol. Id just get the same axle you have for two reasons 1. may not be cheaper but it is easier. 2. pcm may not have option to change it due to the features on the new f150s (trailer sway, traction control) the axle ratio is an input in some ways to these functions and would probably require different operational programming as the math for side forces and such during traction control events or trailer sway events may be different with a different ratio in it. doubtful it has the option to change it in the pcm but if it does that just tells you the engineers are thinking of you.

^^^ why they pay me the big bucks ^^^
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  #48  
Old 04-07-2012, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Wyatt66f100 View Post
Yes the ford cage nuts tend to do that and warranty pays almost nothing to replace them if they are serviceable. I've run into that on the 08-10 power strokes. I havent needed to pull a cab on a f150 before but on the power strokes there is a large grommet in the floor under the carpet you can remove to access the top of the nut. The ford approved method of removal is to use a magnetic contact heater (or torch, not approved) to heat the bolt to magic color (a little orange) to melt the locktite for removal and use slow hits from an impact gun with gradually more power on the trigger. sometimes it comes out like butter, most times not.

As for the airbag system if you eliminate the blown side air bags and other inputs to the restraint control module and only leave the two driver and passenger air bags there could be issues. you need crash sensors, yaw pitch rate sensors (cluster sensor) and without one they wont work right. I doubt you would be able to install f150 side air bags that would work safely in 66 cab door. I would eliminate the entire air bag system on one condition. It all depends on your instrument cluster. if you have an lcd screen information center then your screwed there is no way to program out the warning messages that will show up and cover the screen if the air bag system is non existent. on the up side if you have the conventional message center with bulbs for warning lights you can roll with that because you can remove that bulb. other modules will set codes and be upset that there is no restraint control module but it will not limit engine power at all because of it. removing the air bag system should only effect that system. (it wont effect any other system, trailer sway, traction control, blah, blah). Also there is no way to go from a lcd screen instrument cluster to a conventional one. all the other modules will be programmed to work with an lcd screen cluster and cant be programmed to change this. and you cant replace all modules in the vehicle to change the cluster unless you get all the same equipped modules on another truck without attempting to program. also the harnesses will be different. (this way the truck with think its a different truck by vin) bad news is with that it wont pass deq because they vin in the modules wont match your registration. and even if one module has the wrong vin then the pcm it wont start.

Im thinking the lively hood of this build depends on that.

The steering wheel should be fine but you will have to make sure you keep the steering wheel angle sensor for trailer sway to continue working among other sensors for it to continue working.

the way you change your gear ratio is by entering the pcm with the dealership scan tool and going to "module programming" then to Programmable Perimeters" to change it. Some vehicle don't have the option to do this, some do. some vehicles have the option to do this but don't have the axle ratio available in the scroll down list to choose from for the right rear end. Id see what the pcm has available for axle ratios before you choose one. may be kinda had to check that now because the truck is in pieces. lol. Id just get the same axle you have for two reasons 1. may not be cheaper but it is easier. 2. pcm may not have option to change it due to the features on the new f150s (trailer sway, traction control) the axle ratio is an input in some ways to these functions and would probably require different operational programming as the math for side forces and such during traction control events or trailer sway events may be different with a different ratio in it. doubtful it has the option to change it in the pcm but if it does that just tells you the engineers are thinking of you.

^^^ why they pay me the big bucks ^^^
The problem with the F150 is there are no access holes to get at the cab bolts, just a bump in floor to clear the bolt. Its like a large fender clip which breaks because of the loctite. Ford also used a spline on head of bolts like you see on a lug bolt, wheel stud pressed into a hub.

There has to be a way to trick the computer into thinking a side air bag is attached? What does the computer see different from deployment to no deployment? Do all the new trucks now have the headliner spot airbags?

Wish Ford built a streetrod style harness for the 3.5L

I do know its possible to do this without the airbags but just have not figured out or really looked into it yet. I will post a pic of which cluster I am using.
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  #49  
Old 04-07-2012, 10:48 AM
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Had to stop for breakfast..

I had planned on putting all sensor's in truck.

The simple reason I bought a complete truck with minimal damage to the front so I had E V E R Y T H I N G !

I learned the hard way when I dropped the SuperCharged 5.0 in my 1996 Ranger back in 1996. Now they are sooooo much more complicated and involved.

I do know there are street rods and sand rails running around that clearly do not have all the sensors in them. Not sure how they figured it out or if Ford stepped in to help.

My Ford contact that I had used prior has retired but am sure will be able to find another somehow.

I had planned on using the 2011-12 floor and firewall to make this a snap but now after seeing how much room is in the 66 cab do not think it will look correct to install the 2011 firewall unless I join 2 eco's end to end and make a 7 liter Eco~Boost. 840lb ft and 730HP. Now would that be sweet?

The issue with using the stock 3.15 Gearing vs the 3.31 is there are no 3.15's avail anywhere close. The closest 3.31 is in Albq.

My housing is bent and a new housing is 700+ $$. The entire right hub, axle and all brake hardware was completely wiped off. Cost to replace is unreal.

Just too much to think about right now without further checking.

If I install the 2011 firewall which would make brakes and A/C much easier then I would probably stuff the engine back so it would not look out of place. Its current location with stock firewall makes it look like it belongs there.

Even the steering is right there to stock column.

I did plan on using all components straight from the 2011 so computers would have NO CLUE what the year make model was.
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  #50  
Old 04-07-2012, 11:03 AM
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You might be able to trick the modules if you can determine the resistance of the load in the circuit. Also might have to determine if there is a feed back signal. If you look in the pipoint tests and wiring diagrams, you should beable to figure it out.This is out of the shop manuel you have:

Code B0020:1a left side airbag circuit resistance below threshold:

The RCM analyzes the deployment loop resistance and uses this measurement in combination with an age correction factor to determine if a fault exists. The value displayed in the PID is the deployment loop resistance as measured by the RCM . If the value displayed is lower or higher than the desired range (refer to diagram below), the RCM can set a DTC. As the deployment loop resistance drifts farther outside the desired range, the chance for a DTC increases. The RCM fault trigger threshold may vary as the vehicle ages. Small variations in resistance can occur due to the effect of road vibrations on terminal fit and/or temperature changes. These variables can result in an intermittent fault. For this reason, the test requires the PID value to be within the desired range before the fault is considered repaired, regardless if the module is reporting an on-demand DTC at the time of diagnosis. Following this direction helps make sure that minor changes in resistance do not create a repeat concern. This test uses process of elimination to diagnose each part of the deployment loop circuit including:

This should give you an idea of what I mean.
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  #51  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:17 PM
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I also agree on using a resistor to fool the PCM for the air bags. On the (granted much less sophisticated) 7.3L that I drive a common modification is the removal of the air intake heater. To fool the PCM into thinking it is there a resistor is use and no trouble codes are thrown. Fortunately the resistor isn't required for us, but I think that's the route you will need to go.
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  #52  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:20 PM
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That alignment is mind blowing.
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  #53  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:35 PM
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That alignment is mind blowing.
Thats what I thought!

My initial check was just the rear of frame rails @ 44" vs the 66 @ 34". It was like ok, I will have to make mounts and did not think of it until the cab was overhead. The '11 just narrows down a lot in front and the mount alignment was spot on. Cab is not 100% square as ran out of daylight yesterday. working outside because shop area is just too small. Never thought I would see the day I would tackle a job like this OUTSIDE! I am normally inside shop with door closed.

Having the height of the mount appearing correct and also because of the shape of '66 cab it clears the '11 frame just fine.

My brain is for sure on overload right now trying to make decisions on what to do. My daughter is not too happy of me thinking of changing to any kind of '11 interior pieces as she likes the 66 just fine. (16yrs old) With all the sensors etc the only thing that makes sense is to put in a lot of the '11 dash.

H U G E decisions to make right now, kind of like shooting blind.

The '11 Chassis setup on '66 cab is a easy do but the rest not so much.
The '66 cab is just so short compared to newer stuff. Using '11 dash and seat is not a good fit. Wish it had the telescopic steering wheel option.

Truck may fit me but for someone tall it will be tight.
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  #54  
Old 04-07-2012, 12:55 PM
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Gonna be interesting when you make your frame grafting/cutting decisions. But having that alignment right off the top for a kind of zero is sweet (if it indeed continues to work).
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:00 PM
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OBTW
That green and white slick that you have is the exact truck my dad had in my kid hood.
Absolutely beautiful.
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  #56  
Old 04-07-2012, 01:29 PM
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OBTW
That green and white slick that you have is the exact truck my dad had in my kid hood.
Absolutely beautiful.
Yes, That is a nice truck. I usually take it out every 10days or so and then drive it for that day where ever I need to go. Parts chasing, errands etc.

Its by far the nicest driving older veh I have owned. The Ranger is a close second. My daughter's favorite veh to drive. She just loves the thing.
She always wondered how I could get somewhat attached to a vehicle. When she helped me put it on the road going thru all mechanicals and I let her be the first to drive it.... She now understands and it never fails to put a smile on her face. She would probably be devastated if I ever sold it.

Putting a list together to buy some parts!

Spoke with a Ford Engineer about the air bag issue and he says no problem. should have an answer back next week.
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  #57  
Old 04-07-2012, 02:24 PM
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He may end up going with the permanent resistors in line of the side air bags. Make sure you get a good ford contact some of those guys are there for the pay check and not the fun of figuring things out. my experience is most of them are good. every once in a while you get a lemon that repeats the same thing with no help. hopefully hes a good one! but i think he may steer you that direction.

Sounds like you do have some big decisions on your plate though. I had to write down all the major components of my 66 build (on going) and separate it into chunks to focus on. Body, Fab, Mechanical, Electrical. That kind of thing. tackle it in chunks. Not all at once.

Also props to your daughter for liking these slicks. Not many younger people do!
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Wyatt66f100 View Post
He may end up going with the permanent resistors in line of the side air bags. Make sure you get a good ford contact some of those guys are there for the pay check and not the fun of figuring things out. my experience is most of them are good. every once in a while you get a lemon that repeats the same thing with no help. hopefully hes a good one! but i think he may steer you that direction.

Sounds like you do have some big decisions on your plate though. I had to write down all the major components of my 66 build (on going) and separate it into chunks to focus on. Body, Fab, Mechanical, Electrical. That kind of thing. tackle it in chunks. Not all at once.

Also props to your daughter for liking these slicks. Not many younger people do!
This is the dash my eco has: The amazing thing is when I powered it up there were no messages indicating things wrong. As long as door was closed everything was working and I was able to page thru all in the info center. It did not give a air bag warning light etc. I love the dash setup and easy use of the buttons/switches.
The truck also has Sirius Radio with over 6 months left on the 1yr service. Not sure where I would put the antenna. . .
What would it take to put in a Nav system? Had one in my Shelby back in early 07' and loved it.

A bit dirty with the broken window

<center>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/CalypsoCoralBoss302/1966%20F250%20352%20Red%20Red/821ca93f.jpg"><br/><br/>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/CalypsoCoralBoss302/1966%20F250%20352%20Red%20Red/4a2306a4.jpg"><br/><br/>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/CalypsoCoralBoss302/1966%20F250%20352%20Red%20Red/0481242c.jpg">
<br/><br/>
</center>
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Wyatt66f100 View Post
He may end up going with the permanent resistors in line of the side air bags. Make sure you get a good ford contact some of those guys are there for the pay check and not the fun of figuring things out. my experience is most of them are good. every once in a while you get a lemon that repeats the same thing with no help. hopefully hes a good one! but i think he may steer you that direction.

Sounds like you do have some big decisions on your plate though. I had to write down all the major components of my 66 build (on going) and separate it into chunks to focus on. Body, Fab, Mechanical, Electrical. That kind of thing. tackle it in chunks. Not all at once.

Also props to your daughter for liking these slicks. Not many younger people do!
Wyatt, Is there special tools needed if I were to swap gearing and add a traction loc?

The most difficult part of this project is decision making on how far I really want to go with it. I do want outside of truck to still look like a 66, just not sure how far I want to go with the interior and underhood stuff. Because the interior truck is trashed on the red truck I could save BIG money on using a lot of the '11 interior. I am not a fan of the gray interior but could always swap it out at a later time once the truck is up and running or when I tear it apart for paint. If I would use the light blue truck its nice enough I would not have to paint it.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:49 PM
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That instrument cluster is the lcd screen one. I just say that the swap will be harder because with a traditional one you can take apart the cluster and disable bulbs that will be on all the time. that one gives you warning messages in the lcd screen if it doesnt see all its inputs are right. and you would have to clean the icd screen of warning messages everytime you start it.

As for the red truck, my personal opinion is that you are building a very expensive truck and its going to be very nice mechanically, doesn't the heart of that truck deserve that nice blue paint and body? having a dented up red truck with the heart of a beast is still cool but nice all around with the blue truck would win some awards.

The 11 interior is awesome and would be cheap to trade over. but its gray. gray goes with nothing on the slicks almost. id cut the dash out of the red truck see if the 11 dash drops in like the earlier f150 dash's do, and put it in the blue truck if it works. if it doesn't integrate the 11 instrument cluster into the 66 dash. remove the plastic 11 cover on the cluster and form a plexiglass sheet into the 66 dash for it. id use the red cab for an interior mock up to get it right in the blue truck.

and 8.8 rear axle or 9.75 rear axle before i can answer that question.

And adding a nav system will most likly have to go aftermarket. with the nav system you would need a different antenna set up, the other modules wont recognize the nav system if you try to plug in a ford system and wont work. you would have to get a different dash harness, body control module to supply the nav with specific powers. its just a never ending list of changes that will cost you too much to do. Id go after market if you want nav. but aftermarket never looks good on these new interiors.
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